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17th October, 2008, 12:42 AM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Uk.gif
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanoplyd
No, that's not what I was saying at all. I apologize if that's how it came across.
I read his post as a concerned admin of a server who wants to remove cheaters. Therefore, I do not classify him into the category of "cheater". What he did is a completely different matter than a person that enters a server knowing full well that he has the intention of using a cheat to ruin gameplay on a server. Is he going to return to someone else's public unpassworded server with a cheat announced or unannounced, I do not think so. Will he take the advice given about "penetration testing", yes I think he most definitely will.
I just spoke up because I've seen that there is more focusing on what was done wrong than on fixing the problem that he's facing. He's come here saying, "I found this and it bypasses the things I've done to prevent it. How can I get it blocked?" and the replies I've seen are, you shouldn't have done this, you shouldn't have done that, you are going to be banned, but only two posts are supportive to mitigating this problem. I agree that what he did IS wrong but if he came onto my server with the cheat then posted here like he did, I'd be much more interested in blocking the cheat than banning him. To be honest, I think I'd thank him but also let him know that he NEEDS TO TELL ME first.
It's almost a sure thing that his problem is also a problem for a majority of us (server admins). I can't stop anyone from banning anyone on their servers, but if the pointing out of the faults can be put aside and the focus shifted to the problem, not only will Nano benefit but so will the community by blocking this cheat.
All in all, I probably should have put..."Hey ya'll, can we work on figuring out how to stop this cheat and talk about what he did wrong later?"
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ah but how do you know he didnt learn of a ban then come here and say that?
so he cheated, was told by an admin that he was going to get banned, posted this thread and .... should he get let off? what about the next guy that uses this same excuse? would you believe one and not the other? this isn't the first time Ive heard this excuse, so how many times do I have to hear it before it gets old?
posting it here isn't so bad, and the replies were more a warning than a cry for a ban, but there are new ways to catch this cheat and if he has been logged then he will be posted like everyone else, or should we believe everyone else when they say 'they were only testing the server' ?
maybe he was lucky and only 'tested' servers that would not log this cheat, maybe he 'tested' on a server that did log it and posted this thread once he found out about it :? who knows
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17th October, 2008, 01:07 AM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 742
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I think you are right, if he has been logged or caught...show the proof and ban him. I just don't see that as the case and I don't think he should be banned for the 'honesty' (unless to try and cover up an attempt to cheat) he's shown, but if I am wrong then I would change my opinion.
I do believe he was testing the server because he was posting as a server admin asking about his server, not as a player complaining that he was banned for 'testing' a server nor did it come across to me as a cheater gloating about being undetected.
But like you said, maybe he was just lucky and joined the right group of servers that didn't catch the cheat, or he was caught and hopes that the Admin reads this and decides to not post the log. Again, who knows but regardless, he said the cheat bypasses stuff, so I say treat that as a fact and focus on blocking that threat.
Lastly, what are the new ways to catch this cheat? That will answer the first question here and the thread can be solved.
__________________
CPan
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17th October, 2008, 04:48 AM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hajdúszoboszló, Hungary
Posts: 823
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If he had told me before he 'tested', I wouldn't have posted it.
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17th October, 2008, 07:16 AM
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Rampage
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 65
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no need to apologize m8, you learned your lesson. Don't listen too hard on all the righteous admins here, they speak like they have never made a mistake in their life.
You could have adressed this issue in a different way, instead you chosed just to be honest about what you did and in return you get this. Any cheater would never admit to "testing" of any cheats, they just claim a million things gone wrong and that they got caught be some mistake or someone else using their pc. So from what i read here i personaly wouldn't put you in the same box as the cheaters.
I wished i could help you, but my coding skills are very limited so i am not in position to help you. What we are up against is some unemployed cola+chips loving fatass cheatcoders who have nothing else in their pathetic lives to do than ruining our games and make a profit from doing it. They need to get out and smell some fresh air and maybe even get a life.
Everytime anyone makes a working anitcheat is gets bypassed the same day, like with this cheat, i think it was released with words like this : "In loving memory of Troublesome" .... i'm sure i don't remember it correct, but it was made just to mark the final release of UTDC.
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17th October, 2008, 09:16 AM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bergen - Norway
Posts: 2,389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
no need to apologize m8, you learned your lesson. Don't listen too hard on all the righteous admins here, they speak like they have never made a mistake in their life.
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Do you think that no one should ever point out that someone has done something that he shouldnt have done? Does it always imply that people are "righteous"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
You could have adressed this issue in a different way, instead you chosed just to be honest about what you did and in return you get this.
Any cheater would never admit to "testing" of any cheats,
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Just because you have never seen this type of excuse, does not mean that it doesnt happen. I have seen it numerous times. In fact, "I was only testing to see if others could cheat on your server, because I think they do" is one of the few excuses that will actually get you some sympathy from some people, because you are not really denying the actual facts. In the end there is no way to tell what people's intentions are, so the simple rule to stick by is that you do not bring cheats to other people's servers. Which is the message we are trying to get across. Here in this thread, and in general.
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17th October, 2008, 12:20 PM
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Unstoppable
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 192
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Need I say anymore, PizzaMan because you seem so reluctant to accept that I'm not a cheater making excuses, despite the way I've posted it here and most others seem to have understood why I got that thing in the first place.
My intentions were never to use it in competition.
this could be contradicted as that's all you go on UT to do really, compete to win..
However,
I myself am a server admin and I was just renewing my server and readying it for heavier traffic than ever previously experienced - therefore, I needed to find a more-secure anti-cheat. Seeing as I don't know what stops what, and I'd heard of this hack 'getting through all types of cheats' the only way I could find out for certain was to test it on my server. I gained access to my server and it wasn't detected. Now I know this is where I should've stopped but I saw no harm in dropping into another server to see if it gets me kicked, if I get banned.. no worries, contact the admin, ask what AC and never visit the server again.
I didn't see that by testing it elsewhere it would result in this. PizzaMan you are perfectly right in saying
Quote:
do not bring cheats to other people's servers.
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but I guess in the time it took me to open 'UT Servers' tab and double click any random server, I didn't consider that. I do remember thinking 'what if someone came into my server to test a cheat and I spoke to them afterwards to find out what they're up to - would I ban them?' but immediately, 'no'
I feel that I can be called 'trusted' - I've been around these forums for over a year and a half now and if I was a cheater, I definitely wouldn't be here any more.
Weigh it up, PizzaMan.
Yes, I used a cheat.. but why did I do it? Is it worth banning me?
and don't worry, I wont test again! :O
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17th October, 2008, 12:46 PM
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Dominating
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 108
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Quote:
Yes, I used a cheat.. but why did I do it? Is it worth banning me?
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From the AntiCheat server network, yes it is.
From other servers, its up to the admin of that server what they do.
What you need to do is look at it from our perspective, the amount of excuses we get daily trying to justify why someone has used a cheat on a server goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, if we started to make exceptions due to this and that then it would set a bad precedent.
Questions would start arising why X was banned but Y wasn't etc etc etc
The rules are clear, no cheats on any server, no exceptions.
If you want to test, test on your own server or test on a virtual server.
If you think you know you have a cheat that bypasses protection then let the experts look at it.
Hindsight is a great thing, this is a hard lesson for you, if your story is true, which I believe it is then your conscience is clear.
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17th October, 2008, 01:21 PM
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Unstoppable
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 192
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Thankyou Xen0, this was all that was needed before any of this hating started. I've definitely learnt my lesson, I just thought it was more relaxed than it is.
The sad thing is, I regret trying to help
Wont happen again.
Lesson learnt.
NaNo
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17th October, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bergen - Norway
Posts: 2,389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xD://`NaNo
Need I say anymore, PizzaMan because you seem so reluctant
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I am not. In fact I wouldnt have posted again, if it hadnt been for PaleRider's post about "righteous admins". Your story may well be true, but you really shouldnt put yourself in that situation.
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17th October, 2008, 08:19 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Uk.gif
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan
Your story may well be true.
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and of course, may well not be.
http://www.worldgamersforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18681
there is his ban log.
so lets go through this.
he joined the server with his regular nick and triggerbot loaded - and got kicked
wtf he thought getting slightly worried.
he rejoined the server again, this time changing his nick in case everyone missed it the first time - and he was kicked again
wtf! he thought again, worried now that he had been caught
so you're wondering what to do, you try to get in the server again a bit later, this time without the triggerbot - and you're not kicked
now you know you've been caught, but by what?
you come up with a plan, testing your server and maybe one or two others, you come here making a post about supposedly testing it and say "Could you please offer any suggestions as to what AC will pick up this trigger." - not so you can put it on your server, but to find out what kicked you and whether or not it is going to lead to a ban.
you see you lied in your first post - you said you weren't kicked
UTDC: [UTDCv21] [Reaper/NaNo] KICKED!
UTDC: [UTDCv21] [ASSCOHOL] KICKED!
yet the log says you were kicked, twice (and it isn't very subtle)
so you knew you were kicked, and you knew you were caught
and if you lied about that, then you lied about the rest of it
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17th October, 2008, 08:41 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 742
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Too bad that wasn't posted earlier Leebe....could have saved us both A LOT of typing...ROFL! So, now we know that v21 of UTDC stops this thing. I still like to give the benefit of doubt, but with a log file we get benefit of the ban.
__________________
CPan
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17th October, 2008, 11:22 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaMan
Do you think that no one should ever point out that someone has done something that he shouldnt have done? Does it always imply that people are "righteous"?
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I'm not mentionning names but I think some admins enjoy this too much .
__________________
How to feck up a perfectly good game:
UT (1999) = UnbelievableGameSoCoolIMustHelpBringNewPlayers Tournament
UT (2008) = Unreal ThrustMyPrivatePartsInYourFaceBish
And that's probably why UTIII was a relative flop. New game, same sh*thead players ^^.
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18th October, 2008, 05:10 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,004
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Define "using cheats".
Is it using a cheat to dominate, pwn and disrupt a server?
You betcha.
Did he do that?
Then quit harassing him. He stated he went and got a few shots. This tells me he wanted only to see if the server would catch the package, and I'm betting if it had, he would have contacted the server admin and caught bloody hell.
Next time anyone gets any bright ideas, contact some server admins and state your purpose. Ask that they either set aside some time for you to test with the server passworded, or ask them what protection package they use. Don't just flop down in a server testing stuff. It freaks admins out, trust me.
Of course I'd expect that my view on this might not be embraced by all, but I wanted to at least mention it.
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18th October, 2008, 05:12 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBe
and of course, may well not be.
http://www.worldgamersforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18681
there is his ban log.
so lets go through this.
he joined the server with his regular nick and triggerbot loaded - and got kicked
wtf he thought getting slightly worried.
he rejoined the server again, this time changing his nick in case everyone missed it the first time - and he was kicked again
wtf! he thought again, worried now that he had been caught
so you're wondering what to do, you try to get in the server again a bit later, this time without the triggerbot - and you're not kicked
now you know you've been caught, but by what?
you come up with a plan, testing your server and maybe one or two others, you come here making a post about supposedly testing it and say "Could you please offer any suggestions as to what AC will pick up this trigger." - not so you can put it on your server, but to find out what kicked you and whether or not it is going to lead to a ban.
you see you lied in your first post - you said you weren't kicked
UTDC: [UTDCv21] [Reaper/NaNo] KICKED!
UTDC: [UTDCv21] [ASSCOHOL] KICKED!
yet the log says you were kicked, twice (and it isn't very subtle)
so you knew you were kicked, and you knew you were caught
and if you lied about that, then you lied about the rest of it
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Just asking, but is this the same package he mentions here in this post?
Either way, take that part about me saying to quit harassing him, and ignore it in my previous post. That just doesn't really look cool at all.
Had he been merely testing, I think he'd have connected, then failed ONE TIME.
Dang nano.
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19th October, 2008, 11:41 AM
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Unstoppable
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 192
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Quote:
he rejoined the server again, this time changing his nick
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takes me four minutes does it?
that was different, that was on my clan's server. i can't remember having that hook and it is different, but i do know i decompiled it in my C:\UnrealTournament folder to try and look at the code with 'Reaper' hence 'Reaper/NaNo' to try and see what made a cheat 'work' - like, how does 100% aim just happen?..., we were expecting 'aim=100' or something. just messing around but got nowhere with it, so just went for a frag.
cheat came from exactly the same place, although i had heard about this one and knew it could be detected.
the day i heard about that log and my ban, i checked my System folder, nothing there regarding this hook..
no recollection of being kicked twice at all if i'm honest but i probably forgot
decide what you want i can't be bothered with this anymore. but why would i argue all this time for the point of not being banned, so i can cheat again?
it's not even worth protesting it, but it makes me laugh because i have actually told the truth all the way through this post.. -
Quote:
My intentions were never to use it in competition.
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i can't see how this is going to end now... pisses me off i can't participate in any threads any more because whatever i type will fall on deaf ears, wont it?
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19th October, 2008, 02:28 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,726
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Nano you were trigger botting in your then clans server, how do you explain that? You also tried to trigger on SniperMania....gratz man...
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19th October, 2008, 02:44 PM
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Unstoppable
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 192
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sorry simpleton.
did you just miss the last 35 posts?
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19th October, 2008, 03:48 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The Hague ,Holland
Posts: 1,001
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I would agree with Leebee I'm running servers for almost 9 years and i have NOT downloaded a bot or anything that looks like it Some people [admins]need it for testing so they can stop it with AC
But all other people are just trying to cheat and being lame
any members of me fool around with that stuff i expose them and kick them out of the clan
as for stopping those cheater lamers i always come here and ask the experts
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19th October, 2008, 04:25 PM
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Holy Shit!!
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Uk.gif
Posts: 1,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xD://`NaNo
that was different, that was on my clan's server. i can't remember having that hook and it is different
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the log is from Snipermania (not your server) and it is the Donkey triggerbot that caused it
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19th October, 2008, 04:39 PM
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Unstoppable
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 192
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oh, good... so... what's the issue?
UTDC seems to catch it, success?
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