The Unreal Admins Page

TNSe · #41 19th August, 2003, 11:57 AM

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Originally Posted by DiLDoG

Well... nickfakers can "borrow" a nick for one map then, wich is enough to do alot of damage

That's why IP's are stored in database, so you can see when someone "borrow"ed a nick.

DiLDoG · #42 19th August, 2003, 11:59 AM

hmzz... dll's would still be safer

TNSe · #43 19th August, 2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiLDoG

hmzz... dll's would still be safer

Only at making us feel safer.

It would still be possible to fool, it just takes a bit longer before it happens, and makes it harder for us to believe when it first does.

DiLDoG · #44 19th August, 2003, 12:45 PM

How would it be possible then to get the password? its not possible without extra dll's/exe's

puntloos · #45 22nd August, 2003, 09:17 PM

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Originally Posted by DeadMeat

Hmmm, reading thru all the posts here again, IMHO, I'm not sure that there will ever be a one ban fits all solution. For example, I don't think I would ever be totally comfortable with automatically banning anyone from my servers. I also think it would be hard for me to a global ban on anyone (cause it's like a death penalty and sometime people make mistakes).

Indeed, a server admin should definately have the option to just be 'advised' on who to ban and who not to ban.

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On the other hand, I know some folks who might run servers who wouldn't think twice about doing it on slight evidence. (Yeah, puntloos, I know that's a main topic of yours...).

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What I really like about this, is that if I suspect someone, I might be able to look up his record and add it to the evidence being concidered.

It seems to me that a good system would be to allow the following:

Server Admins ban players and can opt for N levels of banning. I.e, what comes to mind is:

local (nothing goes to registry)
watch (our guys thought he was cheating, so we banned him.. keep an eye on him)
lamer (was caught using an obvious bot or crash skin or suicide attack/team kill attack)

Agreed (Im not sure I've explicitly said it like this yet (huhu.. probably have

) but indeed, we need to be able to distinguish between types of 'nuisances' and decide what to tolerate.

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There may be more shades of grade. Anyway for the last two, a report goes into the registry against this user. This probably should include his IP if possible just as a double check against hacked id's.. (How many folks would LOVE to get TNSe banned by impersonating has him?)

Yeah, though you don't ban based on nickname, you ban based on the client ID which means that I can SAY that I'm TNSe and start dicking around, but if 'TNSe' (i.e. me) got caught and banned, that would not mean the real TNSe would not be able to play anymore. It would mean *I* won't be able to play anymore until I get myself a new UID. Things that should be registred about my old UID would of course be things like IP, time when the cheat happened, server, and also of course nickname..

The only way people would be able to steal TNSe's actual userid and key would be either to:

- bruteforce it: With a 4-letter code there are quite a few possible combinations to try. This should surely be logged and prevented. The only problem is that you should not temporarily shut down the entire 'TNSe' account if someone is trying to bruteforce it (cause this would also cause TNSe not to be able to play, i.e. DDOS!). Rather than that you should disallow more than 3 'bruteforce' attempts from the same IP in (say) a minute.
- Steal it - would mean that TNSe would have to log into a hacked server. -> easy to trace and ban said server.

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Now, if I get reports of a "unnatural player", I should be able to log onto the registry site with my server admin id/password (to prevent hall of shame champions) and look up this players record. What I find here would help me decide what to do about this guy. (Hmm, that Zellius guy has been banned from 20 servers... no need to spec, I'll ban him now).

A player should be able to review his/her own rap sheet. This probably should point to a way to contact an admin who banned them. If they can't work it out, maybe there's an appeal board who can downgrade it.

Dunno, whats keeping someone from mirroring this 'admin' hall of shame to some cheat board. I agree with your ideas mosly but I still say that a BORING hall of shame will work wonders.

That is: the "TOP SHAMED GUY" should have say 10 shame points which is the maximum anyway, and 10 should be quite easy to get. Also, don't mention nicknames in one big list, since then someone could make it a point to get mentioned as often as possible. Perhaps make nicknames visible if you search for them or click on a number only.

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-snip-

Hmm, maybe a good idea would be for the system to hide the first two or so bans from others admins. This way if someone gets banned from two servers it would be a blind test for a repeat cheater, not just someone saying "he cheated there so...".

Good idea. *agrees*

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If folks wanted to trust automatic bans, then a query page could be asked for with the admin's "revoke the license if X points on it" number specified.

Not following you there.

The bottomline of my whole complex scheme is that I want to be able to provide admins with a fine-tunable set of rules they want to auto-ban by. Just trusting someone else's judgement sucks, but if you can quite precisely specify when a ban should be done, then people would perhaps be more inclined to use its automatic features.

As a sysadmin I always want to do as little work as possible, and if I can explicitly define my own behaviour in system rules, then why would I need to manually ban.

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One nice thing, IMHO, about this is that a lot of the complexity is contained on the Webserver side. This makes it a lot simpler to code and maintain.

Well the entire system is -essentially- quite simple, which is Good. (TM)

Any progress TNSe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNSe

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiLDoG

Well... nickfakers can "borrow" a nick for one map then, wich is enough to do alot of damage

That's why IP's are stored in database, so you can see when someone "borrow"ed a nick.

More importantly, you can track which server has been used (and therefore has been compromised) to steal that ID.

ShadowGirl · #46 5th September, 2003, 07:42 PM

Hi everyone. I registered for on the Regis and I saw that it kept my IP. I will be moving in 2 weeks and I was wondering if I play on the server at a different IP will that affect my login?

TNSe · #47 5th September, 2003, 07:56 PM

Changing your IP is not a problem.

XelNaga · #48 13th December, 2003, 05:11 PM

Well, I see there is a lot of discussion going on about the banlist. I think there shouldn't be one. If you see a faker cheating, just change server. If you see a Clan Player cheating, who is authed with his nick, make demo. The real cheating problem is clanwars imo.

And to solve problem of FAKING and CHEATING in clanwars:

Make it required in the league, then make every player enter his ID in his preferences, like with WONID. If he is ever caught cheating with in a CW, his ID is banned for 1-12 months or forever from the league, depending on what he did use and how often.

Then the main database of the program gathers a ban list from all leagues, and when someone reregisters with same domain/ISP, similar nick, similar IP, same IP, you know it.

Also, if he gets through with it, and returns with a new nick to the clan, he'll have to wait for some weeks because of his untrusted mail. I think it should be pretty easy to stop cheaters from registering various accounts for the same clan...

What one could also do, to keep off a lot of mess, you just make a button/command for admins to enable ClanWar mode. With CW mode, you'll need an extra clan account, which is registered seperately, with CLAN NAME REQUIRED, and linked to a NOT CLAN ACCOUNT. The homepage of the Clan is checked for verification, and then IP,ISP etc. logged like normal accounts, but this would allow you to keep much better track of clan cheaters and clan fakers.

Just a thought. As DilDoG won't do it for TacticalOps anymore, I'd be interested to do it myself, if you have internet again, I'd be glad if you could contact me ICQ 83764775 or IRC #fragbyte nick foLXelNaga.

Thx