Aimbot in ACE server

[-=V@STV$T=-]

Hi ,i have an new idea for the anticheat, my idea is to make the anticheat serveractor only, because the hacks start mostly when someone download it, crack it and than knows how to bypass it, but when serveractor only than noone have to download it and it cant be cracked i think,unless they hack the server itself,

Also nice idea to builtin x-ray anticheat as an extra addon i think, am ofcours not an specialist in anticheats i only tested cscc anticheat

[TheDane]

Originally Posted by -=V@STV$T=-

Hi ,i have an new idea for the anticheat, my idea is to make the anticheat serveractor only, because the hacks start mostly when someone download it, crack it and than knows how to bypass it, but when serveractor only than noone have to download it and it cant be cracked i think,unless they hack the server itself,

Also nice idea to builtin x-ray anticheat as an extra addon i think, am ofcours not an specialist in anticheats i only tested cscc anticheat

Do you want the short or the long answer?

[back4more]

Admin radar

with transparent walls hack be perfect.

add to that a client-side screenshot facility .. and call the whole thing unrealce

jajaja

[AnthraX]

Serverside anticheats can only judge players based on the inaccurate view the server has on the clientside behaviour. From the server's point of view cheaters are almost always indistinguishable from normal players. The only case in which a serverside anticheat could be useful (?) is to detect poorly coded aimbots that cause unnaturally big changes in the player's viewrotation. And an "admin radar" is a ridiculous idea.

[back4more]

in retrospect when i personally suspect some of using a radar I myself will dig one up and funnily enough it doesn't take to long to get it out of them what type/version they run... I mean all you have to do is walk/crouch up along that wall heading to the flak cannon and watch them (with the aid of transparent) walls and see if they follow you
back and forth , back and forth .. done it for a good 5mins one time with a suspected cheat.

as has been the case in several incidences.
and being an admin tool then all others can see that you are logged in as admin and therefore could assume that you are doing admin activities.

as for the poorly coded aimbots scenario I would think that they the coders would counter that by limiting the view rotation or applying a different method.

in terms of specing players as you have pointed out above this would also be of no use?. as it requires the server to send the information to the spectators... perhaps then a memory analyzer would be the only hope for AC makers in the future as this seems to be the battlefield for these games.

:\

[-=V@STV$T=-]

Oke... i guess theirs no other way than, and i also think i better not tell my new idea of an Hamachi lan mod for deticated hired servers... probertly a dumb idea to oops i just did..

[back4more]

^_^ heh Ideas go unnoticed in this forum m8

could'nt you see the Shovels at the gate?

[LeeBe]

Originally Posted by back4more

Native code based on all hardware/software key's in user's pc not just single hash which is fallible =P

but then they would just need to change any one of those hardware / software keys to generate a totally different return :?

[Protos]

If someone knows more about anticheat than Anth ...... maybe they should code it ...... till then

Say thanks and be grateful.

[-=V@STV$T=-]

Oke i have to be onest, no matter how good or bad the anticheat is, the problem stays that their is allways someone who finds a way tru the anticheat bij just cracking the code, even new anticheat will never cover new aimbots, maby when the damage is allready done than they will update like one year later in meenwhile the server is allready empty.

[Genecom]

Noone claimed ACE would be the ultimate anticheat of doom, able to stop all cheats.

However taking into account the time ACE been 'available' and the time it took for a few cheats to bypass, I'd say it's not too shabby.

As you say, there will always be bypasses, main goal has been reached - Coverage of all known public cheats ( and quite a few previous private ones ) AND allowing Windows 7 users too keep on playing.

ACE is still a work in progress, remember that.

[back4more]

^_^ Indeed it is the best Anticheat to date . Also un-beknown to you i have had a lot of input into this AC and although a lot of it has been ignored the main parts are incorporated.
I can assure you that although it has been bypassed the lil boys n gurls in cheatland fear the mighty HWID Ban system which is used in ACE.And I am probably one of the 2% that can actually get around it at this point in time jokes tsktsk.

which brings me to another small question. Server-crash fix blocks the attacks DDOS/Malformed-String and the lattest exploit Adv (something a-rather) but it does not give details of the offending IP/HWID's etc. As I am sure you would appreciate that Admins would like to block access to their servers from these 'StormTroopers' as of opposed to allowing them to disable these devices and carry on playing as if they were the admins best friend. :\

[SzecHuanShrimp]

Give respect where respect is due -Anthrax coded a very nice anticheat.

It stopped all the cheat code rippers dead in their tracks. I miss the days of free code sharing and competition for proof of concept and challenge amongst code groups.

I could be incorrect, but I believe that a sold bot falls short on truly bypassing ACE. I believe there are only a few that have cheats that can truly bypass ACE. Most people are either worrying too much or blowing up how many are truly cheating undetected.

Anyhow - thought id pop in and chime in on this topic.

[SzecHuanShrimp]

Originally Posted by TheDane

Do you want the short or the long answer?

Another conspiracy theory? :O

[back4more]

don't get me me wrong it is an excellent AC , and so far only [ELF]HyPer-X has truely bypassed it undetected. although funnily enough I suspect that you also have bypassed it as your name was also in the screen-shot the he posted else-where. Yep just checked and you are the other one z.

I personally have no problem with Cracking Protections etc. but I am a big believer in fair-play! 'if it aint fair , then why play at all?' is my philosophy.

Now you guys being top Coders for [D2] and providing Proof of concepts for all the UT series right up til the latest UT3 is pretty damn impressive. However when you share your knowledge with those who capitalise off of sold bot's and give them the information that they need to produce a working AimBot/Trigger/Radar then that's where the line is crossed imo.

as you found the xploit , claimed never to publicly release it then provide the simple steps to those who do publicly release it and sell it online to 10 year olds so that they can go onto every server and kill it for everyone else. Come to think of it I remember back in the Day when you also claimed never to release the NoName bot , yet it is ironically freely download-able from you know where.. heh.

not much difference from actually releasing your own cheats i reckon.

now on the respect note. Anth practically ignores me and my ideas and when I suggested to him the HWID system in the early stages he built the system but not the actual ban part. Which is cool because at least he took notice of the 1/2 part of the idea and provided the means in which Defrost built the end.

But through experience only being a relatively new server Admin/Server constructor I have noticed that the only way ppl can even come close to proving that aimbots/radars are being used is through Spectating or watching Demo's which screw up more often then not.

So I devised a simple Approach based on a Cheater that I caught once on my server with a nicely honed transparent walls hack , being an inquisitive being and somewhat intelligent I thought why not have an Admin radar system built around Spectator views?.. with this finely honed Transparent walls hack incorporated?.. This surely would give Admin's at least a more accurate platform to judge then by simply spectating. surely.

However Anth Rubbished it and to my knowledge no-one else thinks much of the concept either. It is a Shame Because I really do think that it will eliminate cheaters from Ruining this and every other FPS game on the Market today.

it is only a matter of time before u guys crack the HWID system as it is pretty much detailed in the [ACE] description :\ that was probably where it failed in the first place. Lets be honest would it have been so easy to bypass had Anth not provided all the details in the description posted here?..

anyway it works and is to date a very good AC I have had alot of background input into the systems that went into it which I wont go into detail here about but I do notice certain similarities to what I sugested to what has been incorporated.

It is a Shame that I personally can-not code as i would love to be in the challenge of cheat vs anticheat business. So I am in spare time teaching myself C++ etc and trying to get upto speed with all these new languages which all seem to be the same yet totally different.

Do let us know when you have bypassed the HWID system before posting the methods on UTC or MPC at least.

take care.

Cheers.

ps: by respect are you asking me to build another DonkeyTrigger?..

[back4more]

hows this for Respect?

respect.jpg

[SzecHuanShrimp]

Originally Posted by back4more

..... Come to think of it I remember back in the Day when you also claimed never to release the NoName bot , yet it is ironically freely download-able from you know where.. heh.

not much difference from actually releasing your own cheats i reckon.

now on the respect note. Anth practically ignores me and my ideas and when I suggested to him the HWID system in the early stages he built the system but not the actual ban part. Which is cool because at least he took notice of the 1/2 part of the idea and provided the means in which Defrost built the end.

But through experience only being a relatively new server Admin/Server constructor I have noticed that the only way ppl can even come close to proving that aimbots/radars are being used is through Spectating or watching Demo's which screw up more often then not.

So I devised a simple Approach based on a Cheater that I caught once on my server with a nicely honed transparent walls hack , being an inquisitive being and somewhat intelligent I thought why not have an Admin radar system built around Spectator views?.. with this finely honed Transparent walls hack incorporated?.. This surely would give Admin's at least a more accurate platform to judge then by simply spectating. surely.

However Anth Rubbished it and to my knowledge no-one else thinks much of the concept either. It is a Shame Because I really do think that it will eliminate cheaters from Ruining this and every other FPS game on the Market today.

it is only a matter of time before u guys crack the HWID system as it is pretty much detailed in the [ACE] description :\ that was probably where it failed in the first place. Lets be honest would it have been so easy to bypass had Anth not provided all the details in the description posted here?..

anyway it works and is to date a very good AC I have had alot of background input into the systems that went into it which I wont go into detail here about but I do notice certain similarities to what I sugested to what has been incorporated.

It is a Shame that I personally can-not code as i would love to be in the challenge of cheat vs anticheat business. So I am in spare time teaching myself C++ etc and trying to get upto speed with all these new languages which all seem to be the same yet totally different.

Do let us know when you have bypassed the HWID system before posting the methods on UTC or MPC at least.

take care.

Cheers.

ps: by respect are you asking me to build another DonkeyTrigger?..

OK few thoughts on this:

1) noname bot was not created by [ELF] or [D2]. that site you are talking about is not affiliated with either group. That's another group...

2) I side with Anthrax that incorporating a cheating method into an anticheat would be grounds for all kinds of problems and drama. Just think of what theDane would come up with as far as even more crazy conspiracy theories .

3) You wont find a public release from me or Hyper-X that bypasses up to date anticheats.

4) You wont find our private methods on any site that you listed or any you find. Sure hints on code ideas have been given but no direct handouts publically.

5)

ps: by respect are you asking me to build another DonkeyTrigger?..

last I checked [D2]Keytonic made DonkeyTrigger..so I dont know what you're referring to other than taking ownership of someone else's work? Which is crappy.

By respect I was referring to being supportive and thankful for what Anthrax has done and continues to do for this community.. gives hours and hours of his personal time to the ACE project and answers all kinds of ridiculous questions from lazy people who cant search or google. I think that speaks volumes of his good character and obvious altruistic qualities he has.

[back4more]

cool , good to know where we stand in this spy vs spy world , conspiracy theories and secret information trading

Aight I think you've answered some of my questions and yes I have always thought that Anth is a good passionate uscripter & does it for the love and challenge that it brings ... I would not be surprised if Epic were taking notice of his methods and will offer him a job as a senior Anticheat Project Manager

perhaps he is 12 years behind atm ? I don't know ...One things for sure Iam 24 years behind in this case.
However ... welcome to the forum I'm sure you are here just to z at how ppl can still play this Ancient game..hehe and will go back to honing your MW2 hacks which is where-it's-@ today from what I can gather

Honestly if I had my way I'd make it so damn risky to use cheats in MP games that people would be to scared to even install em

but yeah , like thats gonna happen lmao.

btw:

Sure hints on code ideas have been given but no direct handouts publically.

Does this include IRC? or no. Because Iam pretty sure that someone handed out something (insider secrets guide to bypassing or something ^_^) to another chap @rizon to bypass AntiTCC for 2k4 recently heh.

2) I side with Anthrax that incorporating a cheating method into an anticheat would be grounds for all kinds of problems and drama.

ahh yes I can imagine the drama coming from mainly 'Cheats' and 'Cheat makers' from all over the globe ^_^ be a real bummer Aye!.

you know why? because I doubt you could bypass that Method as easily as you can almost any other method to date... then of course there would be some kind of 'concensus freak' issues and lmao probably a shit storm from tehDane as well.... who knows. My theory here is 'Never know till you try!' and I'd be more then happy to use it on every server I ever got to admin.. as I enjoy the chase more then the frags..

as side note , Id like to point out something ... theres a certain chap that aliases on the australasian servers and sometimes us ones as well you will know him simply by the way he owns on any descent pinging server and even ones which are 400ms in some case by a simple console cmd ShowNetSpeeds in Pure. His is always 3500 ^_^ and he has been accused of botting on numerous occasions however he is adamant that he does not and not even ace can find any proof of him cheating tbh I think he is better then even Gritz and the other top players were back in the day.

My Question is this 'how would one modify' the ut.ini to compensate for such a low Netspeed and allow for a more accurate aim/kill ratio?. and if there is such a method (which there is obviously) how would one balance the playing field in this case without banning him for .... well cheating? Thus is the conundrum I face atm.

I think I made him cry when I raised the min Netspeed upto 5500 on a few local servers a while back but have since removed this because well I felt sorry for him heh.
so I have answered this question above actually... however it was interesting watching him re-tweak his .ini to get close to what he had been accustomed to for some 4 years. He advised me that it took him 1 1/2 hours to get it almost back to how he liked it lmao. then another chappy removed the NS Limit and he was all grins again ! Ezy.

also you forgot to reply to this question which I find highly relevant:

it is only a matter of time before u guys crack the HWID system as it is pretty much detailed in the [ACE] description :\ that was probably where it failed in the first place. Lets be honest would it have been so easy to bypass had Anth not provided all the details in the description posted here?..

^_^

Take care.

[SzecHuanShrimp]

Originally Posted by back4more

btw:

Does this include IRC? or no. Because Iam pretty sure that someone handed out something (insider secrets guide to bypassing or something ^_^) to another chap @rizon to bypass AntiTCC for 2k4 recently heh.

ahh yes I can imagine the drama coming from mainly 'Cheats' and 'Cheat makers' from all over the globe ^_^ be a real bummer Aye!.

you know why? because I doubt you could bypass that Method as easily as you can almost any other method to date... then of course there would be some kind of 'concensus freak' issues and lmao probably a shit storm from tehDane as well.... who knows. My theory here is 'Never know till you try!' and I'd be more then happy to use it on every server I ever got to admin.. as I enjoy the chase more then the frags..

Take care.

You know - there is a decent anticheat out there for external cheats too for ut2k4. It was called Warlock and it was rejected because of its roots.

What do you mean about bypass and your idea? I thought your idea was to incorporate a radar or wall hack for visualization? or was it the hw banning idea? Both would fail against decent coders with a bit of time honestly.

There is only one way of truly keeping someone out of a server that cant be bypassed. It isnt a secret either. And yes it is used sometimes.

thanx for welcome..I joined here to hang out with few friends here

[back4more]

Hmm interesting , I have actually found a very interesting thread that you may be interested in

I will post the core conversation below ;

Originally Posted by Prounreal.org

Chu's thread on shackle sparked a somewhat interesting thread debate that I think should be openly discussed as well as stickied for the reason that everyone who plays this game competitively should understand how cheats work, how to look for them, why witch hunts are harmful, who openly uses them, cheat protection, etc.

to open:
I have no comprehensive knowledge or first hand experience with any sort of cheat in any game

All of my remarks towards any sort of cheat is pure speculation which has come from watching demo's, viewing other people using cheats, and using a mutator which simulates an older aimbot for ut2k4.

However, I think anyone with any sort of insight towards cheating should lend their knowledge or experience in the hope that a better educated community will produce less cheaters and less false accusations.

Anti Cheat
Anti-TCC
SafeGame
Worlock

Those are the 3 major mods which serve to catch various cheats. Wormbo created ATCC, which although it hasnt been updated recently, has been the major anti cheat through ut2004's life.

Clan DigitalDeath [DD] are known for their creation and use of aimbots and radars.


And for the meat of the discussion, cheats themselves:

quote: Originally posted by raffib
There are essentially two types of cheats: Native and UScript. Most cheats don't use solely one or the other and actually combine the two. For example, a lot of them have a Native 'injector' to detect when the game is running then they run their UScript code inside the game.

UScript cheats are a lot faster than Native cheats, but also easier to detect. In the early UT2k4 days almost all cheats were UScript-only, then once Anti-TCC and Safegame started to be developed, many programmers began using Native cheats to help hide the fact that their code was running.

The UT2k4 code is very poorly secured, and many key properties like fog and player model rendering can be easily modified using an external program that finds the correct space in memory and overwrites it.




quote: Originally posted by raffib
The key parts of most cheats are the Radar, the trigger, and the full autoaim. The radar usually gives a 2-D submarine style indicator on the hud as well as makes enemies visible through walls with their health, shield, weapon, etc. visible above their heads. A good trigger simply detects when the player's orientation and position vectors would yield a hit on the hit box, with a ping compensation feature that takes into account the enemy's velocity and the cheater's ping. The full autoaim constantly updates the cheater's orientation based on the enemy's location on his screen, again compensating for ping and velocity.




Aimbots
Pretty obvious, a program designed to aim for an enemy target and fire.

Triggerbots
Much harder to detect, trigger bots fire when the player's crosshair moves over an enemy target, meaning that the player must still use his or her own aim to guide the crosshair.

radar/wallhack
Either a 2D or 3D map; a way of giving away enemy position for better 'prediction' in a fight. A wallhack would allow for a player to see the enemy's model through walls.

Ping correction
Essentially a form of newnet/zeroping (a way to remove high ping) so that aiming becomes much more LAN-like.

All of this is general knowledge.


What I personally would much rather know, is the advanced parts to modern cheats.


Raffi's response:

quote: Originally posted by raffib

Slow Aim - Instead of snapping when a player comes into view, the screen slowly moves
Bone Aim - Uses the bones of the enemy player model rather than the hitbox (harder to detect from spectate mode)
Aim Angle - Specifies the maximum angle an enemy has to be within in order to have the view snapped to them
Spawn Protect - Doesn't fire at an enemy if their spawn protect is still active
Warning System - Tells you when someone is aiming at you
Admin Disconnect - Disconnects your client automatically from the server when an admin logs in
Skin Hack - Makes all skins bright green
3D Radar - Makes enemies visible through walls
2D Radar - A little 2D radar on the HUD
Health Bar - Places a health bar on top of enemies heads
Friendly Fire - Doesn't fire at teammates
Target Info - Displays shield, weapon, etc. of enemy above their heads
Behind View - Allows behindview even when disabled on the server




Interesting remarks:

quote: Originally posted by Lotus
...what a serverside demo shows as far as relation to the hitbox when hitting is completely dependent on ping when newnet is enabled.

The effects are drawn in the same DIRECTION, but not to the same spot. So, unless this was at lan ping, its completely meaningless to show where a serverside demos shows shots registering.



A response (unanswered):

quote: Originally posted by chu::LOB::
does that apply to newnet only, or to both types of "netcode"?

i apologize for being totally ignorant of that limitation of serversides.
must be why TWL demands clientsides.

however if i understand correctly, serverside demos should still be able to show some relevant patterns. In other words, although the serverside with newnet would show the wrong "spot" it would show it consistently wrong? i.e. player A repeatedly hits in spot B.




quote: Originally posted by xios
Some bots (mostly public) are simply trash coding, whilst private ones are much better. There can be noticable differences in percentages, which can be effected by packetloss or hardware as well.



Does anyone know the bigger features that a private bot would have over a public? What's different about the code?

quote: Originally posted by wink
btw,

how can an aimbot adjust a % of hitting shots when it dosent have a clue how many shots you will fire?

Might be simple but i dont see it.



What a % shot would basically mean, is that only a certain number of shots will be 'on target'. For example, if you set it to shoot 60% of the time, whenever you run your crosshair over an enemy target, the program will run a number simulation 1-10, where 1 to 6 would be a hit, and 7 to 10 would be a miss. I would assume that a better coded bot would be designed to stay as close to 60% as possible, whereas a lower end would just use a basic gamble formula to make it's shots.

So, it has nothing to do with how many times you shoot, but rather how often it will work for you when you DO choose to shoot.


quote: Originally posted by raffib
Most cheats are not written from scratch. They pretty much all date back to Helios's code, and enhancements have just been added on since that point.




quote: Originally posted by raffib

Some cheats use an inconspicuous loader, such as gui2k4.dll or NvidiaLogo.dll, which generally aren't recognized. The only way to easily detect these loaders is by their filenames which can easily be changed into something else.




quote: Originally posted by raffib

Right now the top cheating clan is D2 or Digital Dominance. This team was created from the members of ELF and DD, and mostly does not release their stuff to the general public. Most private bots have stuff that public bots do not, such as faster operations or more advanced features. One feature that has been demonstrated but not publicly released (at least, the last time I checked) is the most difficult to detect feature to date. For hitscan weapons, it will actually alter the shot vector itself by a few degrees in order to cause a hit. There's a threshold for the maximum it will alter a vector, and given the inaccurate nature of demos and spectating, it is almost completely undetectable. Most private cheats are not leaked to the public in any way shape or form, but at this point even more undetectable practices are not even necessary given the state of disrepair with anti-cheat programs.





For Chu, if you could comment on any of this stuff that would great, but try to keep it civil. Cemented examples would be better than your not-so-subtle attacks on suspected cheaters. If you could preach on cheaters and how to catch them, i am sure you could do it much better than I could. What kind of effects have cheaters had on you? I understand that you were a major proponent of TAM, and when it seemed that cheating became rampant in that community, you became zealous anti-cheat judgement-day terminator CHU2000.

Btw, what the hell happened to Zorak?

For Xios, i remember when zorak's hitplot analysis was starting off you were running in a little bit different direction concerning snap-to aimbots and how to catch them. How does something like that work?

For any [DD] guys who might read this, I would greatly appreciate any sort of comment you guys could make. If you really discourage the use of cheats in the competitive community, helping us understand them better would definitely put more faith in your group (not that you guys really need it or care).

To KEA, you seem to hold some sort of knowledge on the subject and if there is anything you could share, the more info the merrier.

To Roflk, same goes to you.

I would definitely like both of you to comment, considering you both seem to have conflicting information.

TWL/CAL anti-cheat: care to comment?



Overall, I'd rather this thread serve as a book on cheats, rather than used for witch hunts and sly comments on suspected teams. I'm sure people have more questions and I would definitely answer anything to the best of my knowledge. To anyone with more information feel free to list it or respond to any questions mentioned.


Last edited by bdy- on Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

Original thread here: http://www.prounreal.org