The Unreal Admins Page

Imaginos · #1 13th April, 2006, 12:42 PM

I used to read the ban appeals every time I hit the forum and clicked the 'new posts' link. For the most part lately, I've stopped doing that though. However, it's a slow morning for new posts and I clicked this one:

http://www.unrealadmin.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14129

Unfortunately, it's closed. However, that one lights me up and I got something to say about it.

Are you telling me that any admin can request a global ban if they see more than one IP/name using a given key? Worse yet, is this an automated process where the database is queried for keys being used from different ISPs?
edit - Admins can ask, but how do they prove anything? Ban elevation to global cited above was not requested by the banning admin.

I shudder to think what stolen key evidence is on the keys I bought. (mine, daughter's and brother's). At one time all keys were in use from my house. Another time, two were in use at my brother's. My daughter was in California, but now lives in Mass and her key was in use in both states too. Worse still, she changes her name all the time!

As for key sharing, who you trust your key to is your business. I don't understand how the system works when suddenly someone's key is deemed stolen and elevated to a global ban when it really wasn't stolen. If this isn't an example of a mob lynching, I don't know what is. Documented evidence of unlawful conduct (cheating, crash attempts, etc) is one thing. No verification from the key's owner is another.
Epic's master server is setup to permit the key to be used only from one location at any given time. Let the master server do its job.

DeathscytheHell · #2 13th April, 2006, 05:00 PM

motion seconded

Sardukar · #3 13th April, 2006, 05:13 PM

When you buy a copy of the game / software, you are buying the license to use this for one user (and family members according to most game producer's ToS). Therefore, you should be able to use your game on multiple IP addresses as you wish, even take it abroad.

I can't find anywhere in the ToS for UT2004 that states the product keys are being licenses per household (thus per internet connection > IP address).

PizzaMan · #4 13th April, 2006, 05:51 PM

I know lots of people who bring their PC's with them to friends and on vacation. It is not uncommon to use several IP's.

Imaginos · #5 13th April, 2006, 06:24 PM

Very true guys. You can use it anywhere. Hell, even loan it out to someone who wants to try it. Just don't loan it to cheaters or people that don't understand how vile it is to even think about touching/installing/using bots.

cowbar · #6 13th April, 2006, 06:55 PM

I don't think multiple IP's are a problem. It's when a key is used on 2+ continents and 5+ countries.

PizzaMan · #7 13th April, 2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowbar

I don't think multiple IP's are a problem. It's when a key is used on 2+ continents and 5+ countries.

When I say I know people who bring their PC's on vacation, that includes bringing your PC to other countries. I have clan mates you have used their PC's in Germany, Austria, Sweden and the UK.

cowbar · #8 13th April, 2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMan

When I say I know people who bring their PC's on vacation, that includes bringing your PC to other countries. I have clan mates you have used their PC's in Germany, Austria, Sweden and the UK.

That's still one continent, and use would not be simultanious (which I think is a requirement as well), either.

PizzaMan · #9 13th April, 2006, 08:42 PM

One continent yes. But still a good chunk of the globe.

Is there a check in the system for simultaneous use? In that case its not a big problem.

Piglet · #10 13th April, 2006, 09:24 PM

The UK isn't on the content of Europe thank you very much.....

PizzaMan · #11 13th April, 2006, 10:06 PM

Not on the European continent, no. You have your own little island where you can drive on the wrong side of the road without crashing with anyone. But you are part of Europe.

Either way, who is to say that a CD key can be used here, but not there, if the publisher never said anything about it? It shouldnt be used by several people at the same time of course, but I dont think that anyone has the right to limit my use of my key to certain IP's. That was not part of the deal.

Imaginos · #12 14th April, 2006, 03:40 AM

The simultaneous use is caught by the master server, so that's nothing that anyone needs to worry about.

As for limiting your use of IPs, that also shouldn't be a problem. If there's no reported crime, noone should be hung for it, right? That was Epic's position when this came up mos ago. If you're not a cheater and they don't have you banned for something, they have said that they aren't doing anything to prevent you from playing - not their problem.
They want you to play and enjoy the product. Administratively, they'd prefer to never have to deal with anyone. If the playing public didn't demand that 'something' be done about cheating they would most likely be totally hands off and hard at work on the next project. As it is, we may have bullied them into giving us an anvenue to submit cheater info and they take action as they see fit. That's something, I guess.

dahliamurder · #13 20th April, 2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuD1369

didnt want you on my server & you worked your way around the ban. All this would have never happened if you didnt insist playing on our server when you know damn well your not welcome there. So take your own advice about not being wanted.....

yeah, its complete bs. as he says, he didnt want him on "his" server, so ban it on there and be done. it shouldnt be banned on all utan servers.

utan administrators with the power to globablly ban never would have known about this unless he influenced them to do it.

BuD1369 · #14 22nd April, 2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahliamurder

yeah, its complete bs. as he says, he didnt want him on "his" server, so ban it on there and be done. it shouldnt be banned on all utan servers.

Get a clue. Or stop listening to that lying ass. I had him banned on our servers locally. He used your GUID (or whichever one your pissed at me for him getting it globally banned) to get past the ban which I had agains his "regular" GUID. He was foolish enough to run tracks on other GUID's that he has used in the past & I added those to UTAN locally too. So he needed a different GUID to get on our server with his new IP (cause his IP was banned too).

I did have his GUID's banned locally. He went around my ban like Valahalla, nForce or `Null gets around other UTAN bans, by using one thats not banned (yours) WTF makes taker think hes so special that he should be able to play in a scrim on my server even though hes banned? Why youre pissed at me & not him for fn with your GUID is beyond me.

dahliamurder · #15 22nd April, 2006, 06:21 PM

a guid is cheap, i have no reason to be mad at him. im pissed at you and all of utan for globally banning a guid that you all know wasnt stolen or warezed because of trivial personal bullshit. i hope and pray that utan doesnt evolve into 07. it is a flawed system. dont get me wrong, people with hard evidence cheats should be globally banned, and its a good way to keep them off a lot of servers, but global bans should be for cheats and not for "stolen" keys, because there is a good chance some 15 yr old kid is now banned on his favorite servers because you people rather ban instead of finding a solution.

dahliamurder · #16 22nd April, 2006, 06:29 PM

and you cant even compare a legit player to those cheats. he got around a ban over personal bullshit, big deal. ban it on your server and be done with it. but no, you abuse an admin by comparing it to a cheat, so its ok in your own mind. thats the whole reason for multiple cd keys, above average players get accused of cheating or will have 2 to 5 people hunting just them for map after map. new cd key=new alias logs. they dont know who you are, it prolongs an inevitable process.

BuD1369 · #17 22nd April, 2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahliamurder

you abuse an admin by comparing it to a cheat

What other kind of person do I compare it to for getting around a ban? You keep saying to be done with it & ban it on my server only. Thats what Ive been doing this whole time, trying to be done with him, but he keeps getting new GUIDs to play where he knows hes not welcome, & while were on the subject of being done...Im done with this. Think what you want, like I said b4 Im not going to lose any sleep over this. Too bad that you were that 15 year old you mentioned earlier that found your GUID banned that morning.

Techslacker · #18 23rd April, 2006, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginos

The simultaneous use is caught by the master server, so that's nothing that anyone needs to worry about.

Has anyone actually tested this lately? Well over a year ago I know more than a few people who used the same ones from different ip's while playing at the same time on the same server. I saw this more than once so I assumed Epic never bothered to make this work. Maybe they have now?

gomerpile · #19 24th April, 2006, 02:07 PM

I don\'t post often, I just read usually. But this caught my attention I guess.

Personal problems and grudges, no matter how bad they are, should be kept personal. They shouldn\'t leave the server it happened in.

I don\'t think anyone should share that kind of info, but if they do so it\'s their problem when they get banned locally. But really, what is a global ban going to do but hurt the person the key originates from? If the guy gets around local bans from GUID to IP, will he not also be able to use the same method to get away from global bans? Comparing them to nForce, Null, Valhalla and all of them is a little harsh. They bot and empty servers for fun, all dahlia and whomever used his key wanted to do was play.

Why should your personal feelings on the subject affect whether their bans carry over to my server?

Ban a botter for the sake of all of us, but keep the other crap to yourself.

BuD1369 · #20 24th April, 2006, 02:41 PM

I said I was done but I guess I need to tell the story.

UnderTaker tried to crash our TAM server.

Code:

[2006-01-08 19:45:14] - [INSECURE CLIENT] )BoM(UnderTaker (still connecting)
[2006-01-08 19:45:14] -      Invalid characters in URL parameter. (Maybe a crash attempt through URL?)
[2006-01-08 19:45:14] -      Parameter: Voice = .
[2006-01-08 19:45:14] - [Connect] )BoM(UnderTaker [ 687ddxxxxxxxxxx78385 ] IP: 72.141.37.199 Security ID: 7

Then a couple weeks later tried to crash our friends server

Code:

[INSECURE CLIENT] -�*.røb (still connecting)
 [2006-01-26 21:29:52] -      Invalid value in URL parameter. (Maybe a crash attempt through URL?)
 [2006-01-26 21:29:52] -      Parameter: Voice=.
 [2006-01-26 21:29:52] - [Connect] -�*.røb [ 687ddxxxxxxxxxx78385 ] IP: 72.141.37.199 Security ID: 7

This is why hes banned from all our servers. If its personal for anyone its personal for him, cuz Im banned from his servers....for annoyance. Hes banned from ours for a legit reason.

http://www.unrealadmin.org/forums/sh...t=13149&page=3

When he "borrows" keys to get around bans thats when I start comparing him getting around bans to the known cheaters. I have not once said he cheats. Thats him trying to get the attention off the server crash. I hope this clears everything up for most people, I would really like to be done with this.