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  #41  
Unread 21st May, 2013, 02:29 AM
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I'd think I want a copy of the hard drive! I know I'm silly. .
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  #42  
Unread 21st May, 2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberly View Post
I'd think I want a copy of the hard drive! I know I'm silly. .

Np but for moment i upload all at gopo home who replace it at http://66.197.194.21/redirect/
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  #43  
Unread 21st May, 2013, 08:15 AM
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these are redirected / compressed.uXX files chamberly..

no good to most , unless you have the other bits 'n' peaces like .int,.ini and any other dependencies.

:\

I think you would be more interested in complete packages / files .zip containing everything related to the mod in question.

Last edited by back4more : 22nd May, 2013 at 02:33 AM.
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  #44  
Unread 21st May, 2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
Np but for moment i upload all at gopo home who replace it at http://66.197.194.21/redirect/
As he shares these files they will be placed for everyone to get. That's the idea behind a public redirect Rip, grab, mirror, whatever. Eventually I'll load this with every file I can get my hands on.
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  #45  
Unread 22nd May, 2013, 01:44 AM
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what do you have planned in terms of an actual file-repository?

like ut-files had?
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  #46  
Unread 12th July, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back4more View Post
what do you have planned in terms of an actual file-repository?

like ut-files had?
like this?
http://unrealtournament.99.free.fr/utfiles/
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  #47  
Unread 12th July, 2013, 02:00 PM
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Speaking of redirects...

Has anyone ever considered replacing / enhancing the web download function (UWeb.u ?) to include a micro-torrent client?

Such a mod might do away with the need for a single, expensive redirect server altogether.

Once a community of servers got established, downloads would be lightening fast and nearly inexhaustible - spreading the storage load over multiple systems.

Perhaps someone already discussed this and ruled it out, but I'm sure not seeing an obvious problem with the logic.
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  #48  
Unread 13th July, 2013, 05:52 AM
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@ madrix .. Roger That!

@ 50BMG , thats a pretty impressive concept.. Only thing is .. That torrents die.. Sooner or later..

In terms of redirects being expensive.. Idk.. Private redirects are cheap as chips these days.. And preffered imo.. Due to the extensive problems weve all had using public redirects in the past.. Personally idk about thrm any more.. Unless users are able to upload and have files copied over the the redirect server on an 1hourly basis like skills used to have several years ago.

Having said that though ... Thanks to those who are providing them.. Atm. .

Last edited by back4more : 13th July, 2013 at 05:54 AM.
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  #49  
Unread 13th July, 2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back4more View Post
...
@ 50BMG , thats a pretty impressive concept.. Only thing is .. That torrents die.. Sooner or later..
So do redirects, especially all-encompassing ones like UT-FILES.COM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by back4more View Post
In terms of redirects being expensive.. Idk.. Private redirects are cheap as chips these days.. And preffered imo.. Due to the extensive problems weve all had using public redirects in the past.. Personally idk about thrm any more.. Unless users are able to upload and have files copied over the the redirect server on an 1hourly basis like skills used to have several years ago.

Having said that though ... Thanks to those who are providing them.. Atm. .
Well, SKILLZ shut his down because of expense. This happens more than we would like to think.

A Public Redirect has only the bandwidth available in the contract. With most users out there having 20Mbit Download and more, even your high class Redirect will be at capacity with only a couple downloads. Private ones often can't even fill one.

Furthermore, a Torrent is inherently fail safe. Temporary loss of a single Redirect wouldn't even be noticed by the player community, as it's service would be made up by others.

Torrent list servers are usually shut down because of legal issues. Here, we're not serving copyrighted material - just game files [mods and maps etc...] all of which are covered under Epic's original license. A UT dedicated Torrent should be a Cloud that can last. (after all - many said UT-99 would be dead when 2003 came out)

Having a Torrent based capability in one's server opens up possibilities of having the entire population of UT servers source Downloads.
Say an owner/operator was willing to allow up to 1 player's worth of bandwidth to be given over to serving a Torrent. In return, players connecting to that UT server draw from the entire UT Torrent Cloud at once.
Connection is lightning fast, even by normal UT Redirect standards.

The UT server can share all it's files in UZ form. A Torrent Cloud of such servers would cover a very wide range of MAP content. Alleviating the Terabytes of storage required for a single Redirect server to do it which as we can see from SKILLZ writings saves that money each month.


SO a Torrent solution has the opportunity to reduce or eliminate cost while increasing performance significantly.

Last edited by 50BMG : 13th July, 2013 at 04:11 PM.
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  #50  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 05:58 AM
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I like it

do you know DrFlay by any chance?.. if not then have a read through here as he has very similar thoughts to you .. and there are people that can make this happen if possible.

however there is a problem that we have been facing for years.. and I need to consult someone in order to see if they can assist in fixing this and releasing a patch to cater for things like this.

the problem is file mismatches.. same file name different version.

public redirects atm.. can only hold 1 version of saidfile.u right , so.. if saidfile.u is modified and saved as saidfile.u then that file will fail to be sent from the public redirect yeah..

ok in saying that what admins should do .. is add saidfile.u to the very last position in the ut.ini ie;

ServerPackages[9999]=saidfile

that way after all other files have been sent from redirect .. the last one saidfile.u will be sent from the server instead.

another engine fix that we need in fact is the ability to send larger files from server if redirect fails at a better rate.

as for some reason they are sent at pathetic speeds and this is another issue which should be resolved imo.
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  #51  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 07:45 AM
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Actually, I think a Torrent would already fix this.

Did you ever look in the UT Cache folder? Files in there don't have their UT names. To obtain their UT names, there's a file [cache.ini] that contains a list of downloaded files and their associated names. This list uses a data dependent name to identify the file, not it's UT name. For example...

Code:
CBC22FA011D40648A000678B649656CC=DX.u
This indicates the actual name in cache of DX.u, is CBC22FA011D40648A000678B649656CC.uxx. Incidentally, DX.u is a mod I created to deal with the version mismatch I often ran into with DU.u.
This architecture is why the "Version Mismatch" one experiences when attempting to connect to a server can be resolved by removing the local copy of the conflicting file from your UT client installation, and relying only on the downloaded and Cached version.

Even if two different files of the same name are served by two different servers, the cache can hold them both and your UT client differentiates them just fine by their .uxx name.

This same mechanism is what should be used to identify the file to the Torrent Cloud and allowing it to be fed. It also allows multiple versions of the same file to exist in the Cloud without ambiguity.

Most Torrents already have a similar mechanism - the system just needs to be tailored to align with what UT does.


Oh and your point about "Pathetic Speeds" when a file is sent directly from a server is well taken. But it raises another annoyance a Torrent would fix... Did you ever notice that once a file comes from the UT server [...like when it's not on the redirect] the client never goes back to the redirect for successive files? It just continues at "Pathetic Speed" and gets them all from the UT server. I usually abandon the connection attempt, and re-connect to cure this, but it's an unnecessary PITA. This could be fixed in the usual web.u code dealing with redirects, or by replacing / augmenting the mechanism to use this Torrent concept.

I'll have to read that DrFlay link in the morning. I'd be happy to work with a coder on this concept if it would help get it going. I'd need to re-read the Torrent Specification again to refresh myself in the jargon and do a more meaningful project outline.

Somehow I'm not sure there's enough interest anymore - hope I'm wrong though. Do these same issues exist in UT3 too? Might help if the solution applied to both.

Last edited by 50BMG : 14th July, 2013 at 08:09 AM.
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  #52  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 10:21 AM
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This post gets more and more interesting everytime.

Quote:
Oh and your point about "Pathetic Speeds" when a file is sent directly from a server is well taken. But it raises another annoyance a Torrent would fix... Did you ever notice that once a file comes from the UT server [...like when it's not on the redirect] the client never goes back to the redirect for successive files? It just continues at "Pathetic Speed" and gets them all from the UT server. I usually abandon the connection attempt, and re-connect to cure this, but it's an unnecessary PITA.
Yes that annoys me to no ends , which is why I say put the offending file at the end of the list.

Quote:
This could be fixed in the usual web.u code dealing with redirects, or by replacing / augmenting the mechanism to use this Torrent concept.
just having a squiz into this uweb.u file and have noticed these couple of lines here;

WebConnection.uc
Code:
	Line 116: 		Response.Redirect(WebServer.ServerURL$S$"/");
	Line 122: 		Response.Redirect(WebServer.ServerURL$Webserver.ApplicationPaths[Webserver.DefaultApplication]$"/");
	Line 154: 		Response.Redirect(WebServer.ServerURL$S$"/");
WebResponse.uc
Code:
	Line 88: function Redirect(string URL)
I will see what I can do.

appended: if you or someone else would like to have a look at the full source for UWeb then here it is.
@admins if their are any legal or otherwise issues with this package , then Iam sorry & do as you will.

in fact have a look at this excellent tutorial here to learn a little coding by a very good Teacher.

at the very least you could learn something new and... at the worst you could get more hooked on this cocain that won't relinquish it's grip on the worst of us... that is to mean.. UT btw.

also re: Cache Files etc.. sorry nub here.. but what are these one's in the Parent UT folder for?.. Cache0001.tmp-Cache0999.tmp

Cheers

Last edited by back4more : 14th July, 2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason: added sources.
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  #53  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 04:20 PM
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Those are the raw compressed files as received from the Redirect. One is created each time a file is received in that manner. The UT client then decompresses it and stores the resulting (original) file in the Cache folder under the .uxx name as I've described.

In most operating systems, scratch files can be opened in such a way that the OS understands to delete them once an application closes them. Either this mechanism doesn't exist in windows, or the coders didn't use it. I never ran a client on unix system to see if it happens there, except on a MAC - where I never bothered to look for them. Anyway, that's why the .tmp files are left behind.

The .tmp files are not needed once the .uxx file is created. I used to have a batch procudre clean them up [delete] immediately prior to starting a game. The batch's main purpose is to archive the client-side UT log file.

I'll investigate your links after coffee - Thanks.

Last edited by 50BMG : 14th July, 2013 at 07:04 PM.
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  #54  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 06:55 PM
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That DrFlay thread is getting interesting. (not done reading yet) I've had my third cup of coffee and had to stop for Lunch!

Reading it has at least satisfied me that there is sufficient interest that this Torrent approach might garner enough attention to get itself accomplished.

From what I've read so far, it would untangle the job of creating the public redirect they're discussing and help keep it clean.

I've begun thinking there may be a way to do a "No Maintenance" approach. All a UT Server admin would need to do is list the Public Redirect server's (PRS?) URL as his redirect.

Players join his server and they issue requests to the PRS...

The PRS would then be stimulated to visit the UT Server and catalog it's files by downloading them itself. (I think there's a referer field to follow already) A catalog of file names, .uz names, and .uxx file IDs would then be created. The list could also include server IP to help with file version differentiation. (beginning to sound like a database) Individual files would then be kept as .uz (compressed) but with the ID as the main name.

In this way, the redirect knows how to "Cache" unique files but serve them as a redirect Would.
  • No Maintenance to resolve versions
  • No manual uploading by Admins
  • -therefore less abusable by spammers and such
  • No File Name "Case" sensitivity
  • No reliance on Admins to continually "Compress" their files for redirect, only to miss one.

...etc.

Then, if this were added to the UT Torrent model we've been discussing, it would actually SOLVE the entire problem. (share bandwidth and costs)

Anyone wanting to "Mirror" the redirect, in whole or in part, would only need to download the appropriate UT-Torrent software, and their server would soon be caching files and participating at a Torrent level. No need for UT servers to be altered at all, the main server simply becomes a List server for the whole cloud. Would be nice to build in a fall-back list though... need to think about that.

Lots of symmetry here. (always a good thing) Back to reading...

Last edited by 50BMG : 14th July, 2013 at 07:05 PM.
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  #55  
Unread 14th July, 2013, 10:58 PM
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Ok - done reading.

I'm really sorry Jack got such a bloody nose on that public redirect project that he got discouraged and shut it down.

Hosting your own server(s) whether for UT, or redirect, or any other purpose is to wage a continuous war with the forces of evil on the internet. They get their kicks by "owning" the playground.

It's a pretty large pile of familiarity that one is required to have to keep them at bay. Everyone from kids with a grudge to governments running hacking schools is involved. Knowing OS's, firewalls, Apache configuration, and UT is only the beginning.

But what choice have we?

I need to refresh my familiarity with the Torrent spec, and write up some details on how UT actually performs file exchanges between client, server, and redirect. It'll take me a while, as I have some auto-repair that takes priority ATM.

I'll keep stopping by here in free moments to see if the topic keeps rolling. Maybe I'll take some time to register at that forum and PM Jack too. Damn, I hate it when a nube gets put under like that. We need more of that enthusiasm in the world.
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  #56  
Unread 15th July, 2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50BMG View Post
But what choice have we?
if you are running a vps on even a public IP addressed domain these days you owe it to yourself and your gaming community to be in the loop.

Subscribe to a reputable security advisory mailing list (http://www.securityfocus.com/). Keep up to date with your distro, running daemons and web services on that vps.
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  #57  
Unread 15th July, 2013, 12:24 PM
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VPS or dedicated, up to date or not wouldn't have mattered - they got root access because the system was relatively open.

It was just a matter of knowing that there are some things not to do. It was his first experience hosting, and it blew him off when they hacked it.

Advisory Lists are fine, but one has to know what to do with them. BTW- that list seems more focused on the client side than the server - although I did see a PHP advisory.
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  #58  
Unread 15th July, 2013, 10:21 PM
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Not sure if you know who Jack is.. but he has somehow managed to put himself into the dog-box with a little too many members of UT in general. Tbh we all have 'Lovers' & 'Haters' some more then others.the problem arises when we piss off the wrong ppl... as I suspect he has done. remember that this game is Old but the people who play/code use it are also older.. more experienced and in some case lethal with computers in general.

All the so called 'Security' Patches and stuff really amount to naught when it comes to these individuals and in all honesty the safest computer is the one with no wireless card and no RJ45 rammed up its butt. ^_^ ie; Offline only

Now this is just the way it is.. weather it's because of us or them , it's irrelevant. And the key thing is.. how we (as it affects us) deal with the Situation. Now.. our descission's usually fueled by 'Anger/Emotion' (I am bad like this) .. can lead us to go about things in a not-so-good manner. This in turns brings great joy to these 'Attackers' hearts as well our 'emotions' end up being a Soap-Opera for every-one on the web.. Best thing to do i.m.o is to step back and 'think b4 we speak' (or type) .. and decide what we are going to do in respect to these individuals if/anything..

sometimes is best to do nothing and carry on as if you did'nt notice them. however as a server admin this is not so easy.. because the Bad Guys attacks make our servers look bad and basically kill it for the players.. who are the main one's that suffer as the end-user. there are plenty of things an admin can do to lesson these attacks.. however none to totally stop them 100% regardless of how secure the system claims to be.

and even with a fully patched system , there are the exploitable holes in UT itself that can be compromised to allow an attacker instant access or to be able to compromise it if he/she wanted to.

Therefore different approaches are needed for different Attacks.. even to the extent of legal or otherwise. But then I must say .. 'Choose your Battles carefully' as even though you may WIN a battle .. you may end up losing the WAR.. or vice versa.. however by time all this is said and done.. yu have not been able to focus on what you were doing initially and end up losing everything in the end .. so choose wisely .. or more importantly THINK about the repercussions that could happen through various actions I guess. This is all my opinion open for debate but probably best in another thread. In fact 1 thing I dislike about this place is exactly what I have myself just done.. and that is to say that I have offtopic'd a thread and now started a stream of of shit to follow..

usually whilst in 'Attack-mode' we forget about all the 1000's of other's watching and vent to the point that potentially we loose more friends then actually doing much hard to the adversary in which we are focussed on.

sooner or later 1v1 turns into a 1 v 10 or a 3 v 6 type scenario.. already it's gone beyond what it should have had we just thought about it earlier and approached it defferently.

This is where the danger creeps in.. because sooner , or later the 'Big Boys' , yes the Silent Observer's get involved.. those with the Nukes and Botnets rear their ulgy heads to assist in the battle between 'Smurfs'
Next thing you know.. all your servers are hacked , your website's/forums are gone and you find yourself.. wondering .. was all this worth it?.. What did I do Wrong?.. Re-Read the above parts - very slowly.

^ in general the main key thing here and in Street-Wise Situations .. is 'Respect is Key..'
and 'Nothing Given , Nothing Gained' .. respectfully.

If I was Admin here .. Then I would Start with Making a new section called the 'chronicals or drama' or likewise perhaps just 'trash can' - and then filter out all the offtopic things from all the threads into various little conveniently named posts.. and merging these individual posts into these Topics. Also the offtoppic things that were very interesting to 2-more users I would split into separate topics and so-forth.. keeping topics like this clean from drama and able to go forth and produce something unreal.

anyway back on topic:

Re: Free Redirect Services;
====================

Something I would like to point out here. If you are a developer providing "Free" redirect services.. if i was concerned about my (private) works, then I would'nt use one. Because idk if they are just harvesting sources and are just trying to steal my work. I mean lets face it these guys didn't get that good at coding , simply by reading the wiki..now.. Did they?

NO! I assure you that they decompiled everything they could and learn't (most of what they know) that way. Be sure of that. As that is the best way to learn coding in my experience. Then after gaining the knowledge / concepts / idea's They then start writing their own code.. and are proud of making something of their own design.

However sooner or later 'their code?' will be 'harvested' and 'Learned' to help the next guy.. who is wanting to make something unique.So.. for those of us that 'Get our Dicks out of joint' because of ppl using our? code.. just remember that we once done the same..

anyways.. got things to-do will post here how to setup a real cheap Redirect soon.. then ppl won't have to deal with things mentioned above.

in saying this.. I like the torrent inspired idea and look forwards to how this unfolds.

another note i did not intend to offend anyone with this post.. but if you know me.. i tend to always speak my mind .. no matter how 'controversial' it may seem. And I only do these things to provide problems/Solutions in most cases for ppl to contemplate.

ponder this; if the Bad Apples Own the Basket , Try and save the Good Apples and leave the rest to Rot.

Cheers.

Last edited by back4more : 16th July, 2013 at 11:30 AM. Reason: note that I edit often.
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  #59  
Unread 16th July, 2013, 03:33 AM
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^ updated novel.. meh. back on toppic..

FREE Redirect Services..

Simple.. goto Godaddy.com or some other Unlimited space blah blah host for $5.00 month.. and setup your own. Very Simple.
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  #60  
Unread 16th July, 2013, 06:25 AM
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Nothing is unlimited. How long is a piece of string? He you think a company like go daddy has transparent advertising you're wrong. Read their TOS you'll find the limits of unlimited there. Which is odd since unlimited doesn't have a limit.
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