Welcome to Wormbo's Area

[Wormbo]

So I got my own section here now.
Have fun chatting (and complaining, if you want ;)) about Anti TCC and other stuff I made or might come up with in the future.

[Azazel]

Wormbos here \o/

[LinuxRules]

w00t!!

[[R.S.C]Maxi]

Congrats Wormbo.

Only thing is i dont see why you should have more then 1 forum?
If so make it 1 default forum.
You have http://forum.ingame.de/unreal/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=201 , and you post at epics site, things are getting messed up sometimes when looking for answers or bugfixes or people having same probs.

greets maxi

[Wormbo]

I now have a central place to post things and I will use it. :)
The forums at inUnreal.de unfortunately only have a German user interface so they are not exactly the best place for an international audience.

[Limited]

Weeeeeeeee!

[ArPharazon]

Welcome Wormbo!!

[Cruicky]

Welcome to the club! :thumbup:

[fr4j0]

:)

fr4j0

[mfbubbles]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_209.gif

+MF+Bubbles

[Metalmeniac]

Greats wormbo

[BladeRuner]

Hey Wormbo, just wanted to let yah know.....I dont like yer new AntiTCC 1.18 beta 4 and you could get in trouble for it. Now I do have Helios Security hack on my computer for testing reasons on my own server for the reason that I'm beating these hacks before u are. Now yer only problem is that hack is not in my UT 2k4 folder, its on the root folder as in c:\helios....Now my prob and yer prob is, AntiTCC is searching outside the UT2k4 folder and u have no rights to do this, thats invading ones privacy rights. If I were u I'd change the search code in yer programming before someone else reports u to other authority. Just a heads up

[Mamaboy89]

Helios Security Hack puts a lil file in ur C:\Windows\Prefetch. And it isnt invading ur privacy its simply looking for 1 file there isnt anything important in prefetch anyway. Dont see whats the matter with it..

[BladeRuner]

I'm not mad....but it doesnt matter if its searching for one file or not...the fact is, hes goin beyond his boundaries....and he can get in trouble for it...all I'm doin is lettin him know that if the wrong person finds this out, Wormbo can get in alot of trouble

[elmuerte]

Hey Wormbo, just wanted to let yah know.....I dont like yer new AntiTCC 1.18 beta 4 and you could get in trouble for it. Now I do have Helios Security hack on my computer for testing reasons on my own server for the reason that I'm beating these hacks before u are. Now yer only problem is that hack is not in my UT 2k4 folder, its on the root folder as in c:\helios....Now my prob and yer prob is, AntiTCC is searching outside the UT2k4 folder and u have no rights to do this, thats invading ones privacy rights. If I were u I'd change the search code in yer programming before someone else reports u to other authority. Just a heads up

Make sure to use proper English when you file a report ;)


Wormbo: add a little notice to AntiTCC that it will scan for file X on your system, if you don't agree then quit the server. Or something similar.

[groovyjoker]

the fact is, hes goin beyond his boundaries....and he can get in trouble for it...all I'm doin is lettin him know that if the wrong person finds this out, Wormbo can get in alot of trouble


You know, when you compare what Wormbo is doing to what Spyware companies are doing....the "threat" and "intrusion" simply pales in comparison. Having been the victim of spyware and virus attacks, I would welcome an intrusion by Wormbo ANY DAY over an transponder variant file attack, Coolwebsearch, or a trojan. And if you think any legal authority is going to give Wormbo a second glance when they have such bigger fish to fry....I mean, please, I really had a hard time getting them to listen to me when I filed a Intrusion into Privacy report on a spyware company.

[BladeRuner]

Look obviously u guys are taking this as if I'm takin offense to this....I DONT CARE!!!...and sry El Muerte I dont have nor do I want to take the time to read the readme to AntiTCC I'd rather shove hot pokers in eyes then waste my time reading a readme file of something with as little significance as this. As a final note...when yer readin something I've posted ....TAKE THE TIME TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES...before putting in yer useless 2 cents

[Wormbo]

Anti TCC is not sending any information about the world outside your UT2004 directory to the server, except the information about whether you are running Windows, a Unix-based OS or MacOS (only that, not even version info), whether it's a 64bit system (yes or no) and whether you have the Helios Security Hack file in Windows\Prefetch. (the name of the file as proof without the actual directory name or no)

[BladeRuner]

ohhh and btw....doesn't matter if he told everyone hes doin it or not...fact remains, its still illegal.....that would be like me leaving a note on somone's house door and saying "hey guys I'm gonna look thru all yer shit"...its called Trespassing, Breaking and Entering, Burglary...take yer pick either way it is still illegal

[elmuerte]

ohhh and btw....doesn't matter if he told everyone hes doin it or not...fact remains, its still illegal.....that would be like me leaving a note on somone's house door and saying "hey guys I'm gonna look thru all yer shit"...its called Trespassing, Breaking and Entering, Burglary...take yer pick either way it is still illegal

Wrong analogy.
This one is better:

You enter a building, on the door is a notice "When you enter this building we will check your pockets for security reasons."

Besides, as long as AntiTCC isn't sending personal information to a server he doesn't violate any privacy rights, to my knowledge.

[BladeRuner]

Doesnt matter dood u still have no legal authority to be doin anything outside of 2k4 folder. Thats like sayin a security guard has the right to do a search and seizure inside someones house. I dont care that yer doin it man, I dont even care that u know I have Helios SH installed on my computer(cause I only use it for testing on my own server) but fact remains and I dont care what is AntiTCC is doin, yer coding still has no right outside of 2k4 folder. I mean just cause there is a little note that comes with the install doesnt mean people read it and/or if they do doesnt mean they agree with it....and most people only download it becuz they have to when going to a server to play on. which means they never know about that little "note" anyways. So that also comes to the problem yer not even properly informing people that the search code extends outside the folder.....Anyways I'm done arguing with this I know the laws and I could if I wished argue every single point u attempted to make, but this is takin too much time for me to even begin to comprehend enjoying....last words man: again I dont care...I just thought I'd give yah a heads up

[Limited]

:rolleyes:

Ever think that the note might be shown when you join the server?

[BladeRuner]

El Muerte I can only say this one way:


Nobody gave him permission to go outside of the 2k4 folder.
Also the company that runs the game has no access either....therefore they cant give him access

When you enter this building we will check your pockets for security reasons

this only applies to the inside of the 2k4 folder

for him to have access to search beyond that, he would have to work for the government or state authorities bro...hes just a citizen

Like I said I can do this forever, every excuse u try to make for this I can and will argue it becuz I know I'm right......and the only people that can "check your pockets for security reasons" are cops dood. you wont ever see normal security guards doin that shit becuz in order to do this they would have to be hired thru the state or federal agency.


and I know no state or federal agency has hired wormbo just to stop cheats on UT2k4(no offense Wormbo, merely making a point)

[BladeRuner]

ohh and Limited I have never once seen any notes of any kind when you join a server....except for when yer in the game and it advertises the server web address for whoever or whichever clan owns it....the only thing u see about AntiTCC when u join a server is when it states that its downloading the software....u seen a note, SS it and send it I'd love to see it

[Azazel]

ohhh and btw....doesn't matter if he told everyone hes doin it or not...fact remains, its still illegal.....that would be like me leaving a note on somone's house door and saying "hey guys I'm gonna look thru all yer shit"...its called Trespassing, Breaking and Entering, Burglary...take yer pick either way it is still illegal
I think you're taking this a bit over the top.
I would be very surprised if you could prove what Wormbo is doing is illegal ... if so I would about 50% of software out there would be illegal for the checks it does, eg:

"Real Player is not the default player"
How does it know without going outside of its Real Player programme folder?
By your example that application has just "broken the law"

I could come up with a 100 more examples but hopefully you can
TAKE THE TIME TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES...before putting in yer useless 2 cents

[Azazel]

Another thing bladerunner, if Wormbo is coding entirely in uscript and Epic have allowed uscript to look outside of the UT2004 folder and what you say is actually true ... shouldn't you be bugging Epic about this?

[fr4j0]

Mr BladeRuner - you like playing on a server that is unsecure or you are unwilling to allow checks then disconnect!

As far as I'm concerned secruity programs can check what they want as long as I can play on a server that I dont hear in my head "is he cheating, how can he do that, was that luck?, no way!"

Theres nothing worse than playing a game with old, very little or even no security. Getting thrashed by a huge margin and at the end feel that...

'Good Game'

....to the winner with an obscure, unknown or is 'unwilling to show' their true identitity very un-rewarding. For me this is a sign that they are possibly, 'at it'. I dont see a footballer join a match with a sack over his head to remain unknown.

Security !

fr4j0

[Mrunderwonder]

Installed for testing purposes....ROFL!!!!!!!!! That's the same old song. Let me translate for him.

I had the Helios Security Hack installed to the root directory to bypass your anti cheat mutator and now I've been found out. Damn You Wormbo....Damn you! Now I will try to scare you with the legality of your actions. Shake in your boots now....hahahahaha!

[|zF|Toenail]

Indeed!

By his own logic, his cheat programs have no right to affect or alter in any way, anything operating from inside the UT2004 folder.

In fact, as 2K4 is protected by the copyright laws of various countries, the cheat programs and anyone using them, are in much greater violation of the law. Or have the cheat programs been registered and copyrighted somewhere recently? :rolleyes:

Sounds like he should be making a citizen's arrest on himself then. :P

lol lol

[Techslacker]

Rules and laws of this nature are very much a grey area still. The world is still trying to grasp the digital age in how to perceive and handle this sort of thing. There are arguments that can be made both ways whether people want to believe them or not.

Personally I find it scary that Epic's environment allows this to happen. I hold nothing against Wormbo as he is just utilizing a feature that they provided(Wormbo correct me if I'm wrong.) to provide a better playing environment. Even scarier is me wondering just how much *can* be done through this environment to my system. If it goes beyond merely what Wormbo is doing, consider how open your systems are to the not so honest admins and hackers. You see, at least Wormbo's intentions are of the beneficial nature.

Ideally the way I see it Wormbo is doing nothing wrong as long as there is a method that makes players aware that the scan extends beyond the UT2004 folder. In all instances it should be the admin's responsibility. They chose to utilize the tool he is developing. Of course they need to know about such a feature. I read about it before I installed it but I cannot turn back time and say whether I would've known that before I read posts to that effect. I might've, I might not have.

So with that said as long as the admin provides a message of some sort about this scan, it is then up to the player to decide whether they enter the server or not. The admin is going to have to make some decisions essentially and take some responsibility. The players are going to need to be alert to what they select to do. In pro or college sports it is up to the coaches, players, and administration to read and keep up to date on the rules in the game that are typically decided by the greater organization. Failure to do so can impact them negatively and this can include rules on cheating. The same applies here.

Remember this is a beta version of the software. I would recommend laying off the legal arguments and ask about the issue like a mature adult rather than make blanket legal statements when you do not appear to be a lawyer. If you are a credible lawyer, a better approach is sorely needed in your work. Also realize that I would guess you might be trying to use US laws where in this digital age there are many other countries with various laws at work here. Again the decision comes down to the admins. Wormbo merely develops a tool to serve a beneficial purpose.

[Techslacker]

Indeed!

By his own logic, his cheat programs have no right to affect or alter in any way, anything operating from inside the UT2004 folder.

Depending on how the EULA is worded this could still be a grey area in the courts from what I've heard. I do feel though that with online gaming constantly growing and taken more seriously that this will soon be tested. Who would've thought 50-70 yrs ago that the game of basketball and other competitive sports would be taken so seriously now when lawyers have to intervene in some circumstances. The same will likely to happen in some respect with online gaming. We're only at the beginning.

[Wormbo]

Good luck applying laws in this case: A game add-on coded Germany for a game made in the USA running on an Australian server with players from New Zealand playing on it...

Anyway, I'm adding a message box players that will appear the first time they connect to the server (and any time they reconnect unless they tell it to remember the choice they made), which asks the player for permission to scan files outside the UT2004 directory. If the player denies permission, he will be locked in spectator-only mode and possibly muted as well, gotta see about that.

[|zF|Toenail]

I really wouldn't bother at all.

His arguements sound too much like the arguements used by various aimbotters in the Atari forums, when they were first crying about getting global ID bans from the Master Servers.

"illegal" blah, "lawsuit" blah-blah.

They moved the cheat programs outside the UT system, to avoid detection. Now they will complain that the cheat protection programs will follow them there.

:rolleyes:

[DaMaN]

HEY BLADE? If you have your UT2004 game installed on the same PC that you installed the SECURITY HACK 2.0 .. I'd be dollars to donuts that Helios has your UT2004 key now..

It seems as though he gets his stash of CD KEYS from either his security hack or just by guys visiting his site with a PC that has UT KEYS in the registry..

I could be wrong, but as I said I'd bet he does.. & from some of the people who have had their key stolen, seemed to have either visited his site or installed his security hack.

If your gonna test any BOTS or HACKS use a OS that has a NTFS this way you can partition it off from accessing any vital info.. or use the DEMO for testing purposes..

I just want to give ya a heads up...

As far as ANTITCC looking outside the UT folder? ANTITCC isn't taking any info from anyones PC it is just sounding an ALERT if SUCH-&-SUCH file/files are present. if it was sending info from any of the clients PC's back to anywhere then I'd see a problem, but just checking to see if it's there or not...... Well I don't see any harm in that..
thats just my opinion, which don't mean squat..
Heck.. I wanted to configure ANTTCC to dig deeper in the clients PC to route out these idiots who get a kick out of "LAMING UT SERVERS" {their term} :(

-=tf=-
:cool:

.

[BladeRuner]

ok I think thats an excellent idea Wormbo, dont remember who said it but yes I do live in the U.S. and I was considering U.S. laws...anywho no point in arguing this anymore

Daman:
actually I dont, I know for a fact he doesnt have my CD-key....but I have my own reasons for knowing this(which I dont care to share cuz basically its only my business)....but point is I'm not dumb.....and for u smart asses out there, I'm very much against cheating and I do only use it for testing my own server, becuz I do like having a good game with someone(an maybe I"d even like to play some of u, if u could actually trust me instead of baggin on me and ina very subtl way saying I cheat). I take very much offense to that. Don't wanna believe fine whatever but I could give yah a really long list of names I've banned from my serverfor cheatin

[Techslacker]

Why don't we just drop this topic since Wormbo seems to have a solution planned to address notification? Bladeruner has nothing to prove to anyone here but a word of advice is to work on his approach on bringing up issues as that is what baited everyone into attacking him.

[cantar]

Hay Wormbo i found a guy today on mysever who was aimboting it was simi cheasy bot but he was godlike in the first min of the map so i went and enabled every AntiTCC check via webadmin and waited for the map to end and in the next match i was expecting it to kick him.

i was wrong it seems theres an new aimbot out there able to get past your system =/

[Wormbo]

I know that Anti TCC can be bypassed if the cheater knows what he's doing. I have checks that can detect those kinds of hacks, but I won't implement them in Anti TCC 1.x anymore.
Version 2.0 is already in the works and will contain a whole range of new checks, but I can't say when the first public version is going to be released to the public.

[cantar]

ok awsome wormbo thanks for the heads up