[Thread split] Ban #4270

[owdeuk]

zzz

[Azura]

Originally Posted by owdeuk

Dunno how you can ban a guy for trying a cheat on another game... Don't care what ne1 says, UT is a different game than UT2004 and just cause you tried a cheat in one, it shouldn't be taken as gospel that you've tried a cheat in another.

Well, I play both UT & UT2004 so I don't understand your reasoning. Why would a player limit themselves to cheating on one game and not the other ? Could you explain that ? Evidence like this could easily get you banned from both games on clanbase. It is not because one game is "old" that a player should consider that it is harmless to cheat. There are projects to actually extend UTAN to UT so this sort of ban would become common place.

Now, I understand your point of view since a member of our UT2004 ONS division risked getting banned off TWL based on a simple IP related to a ban on BattleField Vietnam, a game which he's never played. We were able to provide some information that went against the evidence though. In fact, the so-called evidence came from punkbuster, a system where a offender can get banned from many games.

But this case is completely different in that it has been established that there was intention to cheat. $aN could have very well ended up on a server protected by the latest UTDC and his IP would have been publicized on sites like anticheat.co.uk, resulting in various bans being propagated through the anticheat group it's part of.

[Azura]

Well, I'm no 'ban happy' admin and I'm not associated with UTAN so please explain why a person would cheat on one game and not the other ? You obviously know since you're defending San. Which online games are ok to cheat in and which are not ? Just the old ones with crappy protection or would there be some temptation to try with more recent games ? Where does one draw the line exactly ?

You do realize the UTAN team only have your word for it that he's an honest player, don't you ? And you seem to take cheating very lightly from your comments. When a game involves more than one player, the notion of mutual respect comes into play. When you're offline, you can do as you please.

And also considering most people are on Dynamic even on dsl or cable, the point of publisicing everyones Ip's is irrelevant anyways.

This comment was with respect to UT. Since there is no guid implemented, the only firsthand information that can be obtained is the IP as well as the time and date. However, this can be used with various other sources of information to actually pinpoint who was actually cheating.

Originally Posted by owdeuk

NOT 2004.

Tell that to Wormbo. I think it's AntiTCC that signals the presence of the hook. What was your friend doing with the hook in the first place ? He actually had to download it and run it once for this ban to have popped up so what were his intentions ? You know, I'd be seriously pissed off if I were the admin of public UT server and reading this because there simply is no excuse when the stakes at hand are that your public might leave the server and the time plus money you've invested into the server has basically just been flushed down the toilet. Do you have any idea how many guids have been banned for this reason. Take a look in this forum...

[Goliath_ro]

"Well, I play both UT & UT2004 so I don't understand your reasoning. Why would a player limit themselves to cheating on one game and not the other ? Could you explain that ?"

Azura lets say u cant get a test in school and u resort to cheat in it and the theacher catches u , next test se will automaticly give u a bad mark on the test because she assumes u cheat ... hey if u cheat in 1 of the test it means u cheat in all of em ... no need to chek u to see if u do i will just assume u do ...

[Azura]

Well, I'm no angel and have cheated in written tests. But I didn't do it shoving my pen at someone else, which is basically what online cheating is about and it's even worse when the cheating occured during competition because that's just plain deception.

Anyway, there's a simple word for that and it's called dishonesty. This is the Internet so how do you propose making the difference between the right and wrong doers ? With simple text, graphics, and messages on MSN ? Maybe a certificate from your parents or your employer if you're older ? That's a ludicrous thought. Maybe the best thing to do is just stay away from cheats altogether and stop wasting everyone's time.

[Azura]

I'll add that the only reason I replied in this thread is because I'm not happy with the implicit idea that cheating on a game I play doesn't matter and is of no consequence. That is all.

[Azura]

Well actually I'm not after an argument at all. I'm just analysing what you've posted up until now. Anyway, the UTAN team have yet to intervene and will give their own feedback. I have no business here but neither do you. Forget anything I've said and consider the following fact :

http://www.epicgames.com/ut2k4_eula.html

4. Use Restrictions. We want you to enjoy our products for years to come, and we want to be able to continue to make awesome games, so you need to be aware that there are some things you cannot do with the Software. The Software contains copyrighted material, trade secrets and other proprietary material. You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, publicly display, prepare derivative works based on the Software (except as permitted in Section 8, below), disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software. Except as set forth herein, you may not rent, sell, lease, barter, sublicense or distribute the Software. You may not delete the copyright notices or any other proprietary legends on the original copy of the Software. You may not offer the Software on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise commercially exploit the Software or use the Software for any commercial purpose except as described in this agreement. You may not electronically transmit the Software from one computer to another or over a network. You may not ship or export the Software to any country other than where you bought it, in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act (or any other law governing such matters) and you will not utilize and will not authorize anyone to utilize the Software in violation of any applicable law. The Software may not be downloaded or otherwise exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited by applicable law, from receiving it.

Your friend Sas was basically using illegal software.

[Keith_C]

UTAN is a system where busy server admins can choose to automatically follow the recommendations of the UTAN admins. There is no hold forcing a server admin to use or keep installed UTAN, and if a server admin was unhappy with the way UTAN operated he can choose to only use it partically or not at all.

UTAN would not be here or, and this is the important point, powerful, were it not for a mass agreement by server admins that zero tolerance is the policy we want. These servers cost us money to run, and we do not wish to see an unwelcome element on them. I personally do not want on my server the sort of person who would ever cheat in any online game, and judging by the popularity and effect that UTAN has so do many other admins. If the policies were so unpopular there would be few server admins using.

UTAN is not an inflexible dictatorship working through victimisation of the innocent, it is a true democracy working for it's members, and reflecting the wishes they have, which is to keep online cheaters off their servers, no matter where, when and how they cheated.

[Azazel]

Well said Keith_C

[Moredhel]

Maybe there should however, be a category for bans where the cheat in question was for another game? That way server admins would have to specifically opt that people who cheated in UT99 are banned from 2k4.

[Wormbo]

Folks, would you PLEASE read and follow the reply rules before annoying the moderators?


...and about Anti TCC reporting the Hook: it's only a nice side effect of the file wildcard it uses to find the HelioS Security Hack and the HelioS Radar.

[ShiningSquirrel]

Originally Posted by owdeuk

Well said Moredhel.....

You can't ban people for cheating on other games. No matter what you power crazy admins think.

Well actually, yes we can, as your friend $an has found out.
I could ban you from my server because I do not like your name.
I could ban you because you beat me in deathmatch.
I could ban you simply because I feel like it today.
No one can tell and admin aho he can and cannot ban and for what reasons.

As has been said before, no one has to use the global UTAN bans.
That is strictly up to the indevidule admins.
He can opt to only use his own bans instead of the global ones.
He can also choose to only use bans from his region of the world.

I happen to trust Limited and the other UTAN admin's judgement,
so I choose to use the global bans because I would not want a player who
cheats in ANY game on my server. If they cheat in one game, it shows that they are willing to cheat in ANY game.

As to Moredhel's suggestion, that could be a viable option, but chances are most admins will opt to ban those players if given the choice.

[nixxy]

Originally Posted by ShiningSquirrel

Well actually, yes we can, as your friend $an has found out.
I could ban you from my server because I do not like your name.
I could ban you because you beat me in deathmatch.
I could ban you simply because I feel like it today.
No one can tell and admin aho he can and cannot ban and for what reasons.

by using a cheat in whatever game the player simply give a proof of beeing
an unwanted person on any servers i would say
and there is no reason why an admin should have to wait for the player cheating again
i doubt that by simply changing the game the person also changed his mind about cheating........

[[ACE]MORGUE]

A cheater is a cheater, as far as I'm concerned, if that guy is prepared to cheat on one game, then spoil it for everyone else, because he is too crap a player to win honestly, then yes I would ban him from every damn online game he has and to hell with whatever cost it is to him.

Why? Because if a guy gets away with cheating on one game and has opportunity to cheat on another game then you can safely bet he will cheat every time he needs a few kills to win. you may disagree with that, but by cheating in one game, SAN has shown that he has no morals or respect for other players and as such a cheaters opinion is worthless and indefensible.


BAN the GUIDS.

[$aN]

you lot wanna calm down i made a valid point THAT UTAN DOES NOT DEAL WITH UT99 you have no evidence of me cheating in ut2k3 or 2k4, which, incidently i played all the way through right from the beggining even the first unreal prior to ut99 ....

i wish this thread had stayed in the appeals bit ....i did'nt read anything in the rules about that, THE SAME as i dont see anything in any rules about cheating in ut99 (very briefly i might add) gets you a ban from from ut2004.

i made no attempt to hide my game name from anyone and have been nothing but forthright and honest about what has happened (If you care to read the original thread)...and how someone can be so dishonest and attempt to do my thinking for me by assuming i will cheat in every game is beyond me!!!

[Azura]

The question still remains, why would one cheat in one game and not the other ? Why would it be ok to cheat in UT and not in UT2004 for example ?

[$aN]

Originally Posted by $aN

http://anticheat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcano
You dont have a Global Ban.
You allready have a ServerBan on all Servers on my Controll.
Reason: Insecurity Description: Illegal File Found [ABot Aimbot - ABot.ini]

But ive the same Argument as Mahal.

So I will give you a Second Chance.
Next was a Global Ban. Please never touch any Aimbots.

--> Ban Removed <--

Vulcano
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeatHy68
thx vulcano!
I speak in german k?

Thx ² aLL =)

mfg DeatHy .
Reply With Quote

so its ok for this guy but not for me?? referee!

[nixxy]

Originally Posted by $aN

you lot wanna calm down i made a valid point THAT UTAN DOES NOT DEAL WITH UT99 you have no evidence of me cheating in ut2k3 or 2k4, which, incidently i played all the way through right from the beggining even the first unreal prior to ut99 ....

i wish this thread had stayed in the appeals bit ....i did'nt read anything in the rules about that, THE SAME as i dont see anything in any rules about cheating in ut99 (very briefly i might add) gets you a ban from from ut2004.

i made no attempt to hide my game name from anyone and have been nothing but forthright and honest about what has happened (If you care to read the original thread)...and how someone can be so dishonest and attempt to do my thinking for me by assuming i will cheat in every game is beyond me!!!

utan does not ban u - admins do
and lots of ut2k4 admins have also been active in ut99 before
so i cant see any valid point u made

[UTAN Administrator]

Originally Posted by owdeuk

Plenty of GUID's have been put on "watch" for far less than this.

Look, we don't mind you debating this out, but if your going to make comments about certain parts of the system, make sure you actually know the specifics. We have about 5 GUID's on watch, and these are only put into effect for stolen cdkeys.

[$aN]

so the global ban is staying in place? is this is what you are saying?