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  #81  
Unread 20th January, 2010, 05:38 AM
2399Skillz 2399Skillz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -={SDA}=-Beast View Post
but ACE isn't using DLL's correct? i thought he said it will work on native linux installs right? i guess if it is you can set it up to use nploader..
It will be using both .dll files (for Windows) and .so files (for Linux)
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  #82  
Unread 20th January, 2010, 11:36 AM
Lee_Stricklin Lee_Stricklin is offline
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Originally Posted by -={SDA}=-Beast View Post
you could make the same argument against any mutator that installs automatically when you join a server though right? (such as stat collecting, texture checking, other various mutators, etc.)

You can see the package names as your downloading them while connecting to a server. What I'm talking about is the anticheat sneaking past that as well as stuff silently getting into your directory during gameplay. If you see "downloading file: ACE 0.0%" while connecting, then it's not silently going onto your system.
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  #83  
Unread 20th January, 2010, 08:59 PM
Metoch Metoch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -={SDA}=-Beast View Post
you could make the same argument against any mutator that installs automatically when you join a server though right? (such as stat collecting, texture checking, other various mutators, etc.)
No because it is visible what you download. if you don't agree you can always disconnect from it. Besides the anticheat checks files on your pc. Without approval of the user of the PC it is indeed very illegal. So fat chance it'll get done unless the law is changed
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  #84  
Unread 21st January, 2010, 12:34 AM
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and a small download on a fast connection is barely visible anyway, its usually downloaded before you get a chance to cancel
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  #85  
Unread 21st January, 2010, 12:54 AM
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How can I get a copy, I would like to test this on my servers.
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  #86  
Unread 21st January, 2010, 08:08 AM
2399Skillz 2399Skillz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBe View Post
and a small download on a fast connection is barely visible anyway, its usually downloaded before you get a chance to cancel
For a DLL to be installed you'll need to use NPLoader where it will ask you before hand if you want to install and/or rebooting the client.


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Originally Posted by TSQ View Post
How can I get a copy, I would like to test this on my servers.
It's only available to private server admins only. When they finally release the public version, you'll get your chance to test it. Until then, just keep watching this forum for updates.
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  #87  
Unread 29th January, 2010, 07:24 AM
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Decided to share a small update as it's been a good while since anything new was posted.

Starting yesterday a few closed beta servers were fitted with version 0.6 to discover any major problems before the release of a public beta.
Elements still missing are for example proper documentation, but overall AnthraX is doing an awesome job and managed to keep initial said deadlines pretty good consider the complexity.
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  #88  
Unread 29th January, 2010, 11:49 PM
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Sounds good.. can't wait... dual booting is killing me . Thanks for update and great job Anthrax!
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  #89  
Unread 31st January, 2010, 12:30 PM
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Looking forward to this too, just please make sure it doesn't cause the same problems as the new UTDCPlusv12Tf. Because then it would just change around the group of players that are locked out from playing.
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  #90  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZSZ]Evil_Dragon View Post
Looking forward to this too, just please make sure it doesn't cause the same problems as the new UTDCPlusv12Tf. Because then it would just change around the group of players that are locked out from playing.
traced the client crashes down to the servers modosutils25.
check if its on, and remove it, utdc+12tf workfing fine then.
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  #91  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 11:04 AM
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modosutils is not running on ZSZ - so that can't be the reason for the crashing.

Besides IF it was then it would effect all players and not just a few, wouldn't it?
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  #92  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 11:49 AM
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ahh it makes me smile reading about these issues with "I want to know what I'm installing on my pc" .. yes sure, i'll say force load the bugger and save the players for a lot of trouble. If people feel "secure" because they click yes to install a new dll file, well then it's a false ensurance, how hard is it to code a mallicious dll file and name it like any UTDC or ACE file and load it to the client via the NPloader?

When people decide to release a dll for the public, they vouche for it's security. Just as when a server admin decides to put it on their server, then they too have vouched for it's integrity. How many of you knows what exactly goes on inside the code of either UTDC or UTDC+ or ACE? ... it's obfuscated and well hidden. Did you know that a nifty coder actualy can grap any file from a clients pc he wants to using the UTDC dll file? all depending of how long he stays on for the files to transfer ofcause .... naa .... the gods here vouch for it, so you just suck it in
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  #93  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Well there is mutual respect and trust here and I honestly would have no seconds thoughts on thinking anticheat files like UTDC/UTDC+ and the to be ACE, would be coded to cause harm? At then end of the day....they have been in use for so long and no one has ever complained of their computer being "hacked" or anything of that sort.

Stop trying to stir shit, especially if you are not offering an alternative. I hate that you would try to ever belittle these peoples hard work.
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  #94  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 02:44 PM
Random_Monk Random_Monk is offline
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So good to have you back Dane
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  #95  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 03:21 PM
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In this case it's not a problem to vouch for ACE as everything involving the project is covered to the highest of business standards.

In what ways doesn't matter but I can assure you that you are way off in your conspiratory beliefs.
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  #96  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 03:38 PM
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@TheDane: I must say that you're very persistent in your crusade against the closed source cheatprotection efforts in UT. And yes, maybe in an ideal world, all anticheat mods would be open source and written in pure unrealscript (that still wouldn't garantuee that they would not be invasive. A LOT of personal information can be retrieved with no native code at all).

Unfortunately, unrealscript based protections stopped being effective shortly after the release of the first native cheats. The only reason why the earliest native cheats were detectable/blockable using uscript is because they altered/relied on variables that were accessible using uscript. This is no longer the case. In my opinion this only leaves two options: either you completely ignore the issue of online cheating or you use native cheatprotection.

And sure, it's much harder to see what native code does than what uscript code does (and fyi, the UTDC dll is not protected nor obfuscated). Even open source software that you didn't compile yourself can do pretty much everything on your pc. That does not mean that all binary code is evil spyware that will steal your personal information and hijack your pc. If you think otherwise then just download the sourcecode of an open source operating system and compile it yourself. In that case you'd also have to keep in mind that UT itself is closed source so you'd better not install that either.

In the end it all comes down to trust. Personally I can only give players the choice wether or not they want to install ACE and I am open about the boundaries of the ACE checks. ACE will stay within the UT process, it cannot read any files that are not mapped into the address space of the UT process. It does not check which processes you're running (unlike UTDC) and it does not upload any personal information. If you don't believe me then don't install the dll, if you do believe me and I betray your trust, then feel free to sue me.

@Everyone else: Please stop PM'ing me to ask if I can install the ACE dll without any user notification. The goal of ACE is to prevent players from cheating. The main purpose is to block cheats, not to detect them. Nothing good comes out of the catch-as-many-as-you-can approach to cheatprotection.
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  #97  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 07:12 PM
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what i was trying to state is that everybody can name their malicious dll file the same as files trusted from here and the client will never know. So NPloader or not, it does not contribute for one second to the clients security. And i agree about your theory about it's not about to catch as many as possible, but rather a question of beeing able to block their cheats.

oh, and I'm not on any crusade. I'm simply suggesting you force load the package to the client, why don't you? You will be sewed anyway if it turns out to be malicious. Just code the god dang thin so it puts [ACE] in front of the servers name so people are warned before joining. And to all whining admins, that's a low price to pay for a working AC IMO.
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  #98  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 07:21 PM
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I fail to see your point really. How can he be liable for someone elses creation? Just 'coz someone calls it ACE? Just because a sh*thead admin places it on a server to be downloaded on a client? Just wondering how far you thought this through, as I'm quite used to think ahead.
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  #99  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DANISH]TheDane View Post
what i was trying to state is that everybody can name their malicious dll file the same as files trusted from here and the client will never know. So NPloader or not, it does not contribute for one second to the clients security.
unless the client already has all the files from here, I know I would notice if I started downloading a version I already had, or even a later version I knew wasnt out yet

but the point is moot, a dodgy file wouldnt give you the option to 'Install' or not, it would just do it, that is assuming those creating the dodgy file knew how to install it without prompting the client - which brings us an important point, suppose Anth did do as you ask, who is to say others would not copy that method to install dodgy .dlls to clients machines - a method that might otherwise have remained hidden from them
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  #100  
Unread 2nd February, 2010, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
what i was trying to state is that everybody can name their malicious dll file the same as files trusted from here and the client will never know.
cant there be a CRC check or something to ensure you're using the correct .dll?? also most of us have specific servers that we have been playing on for years, and so i am sure there is a bit of trust there knowing WHO is running it, their website/forums, etc. people can be tracked easily especially if they are using a hosting company and their IP is out in the open.

it seems to me like the only time somebody can do something "shady" and use a fake malicious DLL file is somebody running a server from their own network (usually the ping is bad anyway) and you would also only be targetting noob players that are surfing through the master server list, not through their favorites.

a good point none-the-less that you bring up but like anthrax said, you just have to trust the admins, coders, etc. because otherwise you might as well not even use Windows, MacOSX, MS Office, or any other commercially released game or software that is closed source.
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