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Go Back   The Unreal Admins Page > Forums > Hosted Forums > UTAN > Feature Requests

 
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  #1  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 06:54 PM
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AcidReflux AcidReflux is offline
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Default Feature Ideas/Questions

So does UTAN completely replace your current ban list? I would think most admins will ban in game first and then get around to using UTAN to spread it to other servers. Knowing how this part works will help admins perform the right steps.

It would be nice if a ban was added in game or through webadmin for it to push to UTAN, but I understand at this point it's solely a pull model from the UTAN server.

I LOVE the idea of timed bans!

Would it be possible to have groups of servers that share ban lists? IE, I can add the ban to group1, group3, but not to group2 all from the same screen. This way, if a behavior is acceptable on servers in group2 I don't have to ban the person from there.
  #2  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
So does UTAN completely replace your current ban list? I would think most admins will ban in game first and then get around to using UTAN to spread it to other servers. Knowing how this part works will help admins perform the right steps.
UTAN has its own ban lists in the server, so you don't see the UTAN bans you have active on your server by going to the Access Policy. Currently you can only view them through the web-site. This is something that will change soon.
Quote:
It would be nice if a ban was added in game or through webadmin for it to push to UTAN, but I understand at this point it's solely a pull model from the UTAN server.
This is something we debated for quite a while, but we were reluctant to put this into the current version. As if a cheat protection was to process a false positive that poor sole would be banned from all your servers within minutes. It's something we are going to look into doing soon, where bans made in the game are active on your server like usual, but these are also stored inactively in UTAN. ie. You would have to login to UTAN to activate the bans just incase you knew it was a mistake. Unfortuantly this is hard to work out, as we cant give any evidence other than the nickname/guid/ip to you to make your decision about the ban. However, it's still something we are looking into.
Quote:
I LOVE the idea of timed bans!
Coming soon!
Quote:
Would it be possible to have groups of servers that share ban lists? IE, I can add the ban to group1, group3, but not to group2 all from the same screen. This way, if a behavior is acceptable on servers in group2 I don't have to ban the person from there.
Thats an interesting idea, have to get back to you on that one. Would probably be something for UTAN 2.0.
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  #3  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
UTAN has its own ban lists in the server, so you don't see the UTAN bans you have active on your server by going to the Access Policy. Currently you can only view them through the web-site. This is something that will change soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
This is something we debated for quite a while, but we were reluctant to put this into the current version. As if a cheat protection was to process a false positive that poor sole would be banned from all your servers within minutes. It's something we are going to look into doing soon, where bans made in the game are active on your server like usual, but these are also stored inactively in UTAN. ie. You would have to login to UTAN to activate the bans just incase you knew it was a mistake. Unfortuantly this is hard to work out, as we cant give any evidence other than the nickname/guid/ip to you to make your decision about the ban. However, it's still something we are looking into.
Both of these indicate that UTAN has it's own ban list (which is fine). But it's unclear if the standard banlist has any affect anymore. The second quote implies that if I kick/ban in game, the user won't be banned. Is this right?

Having the ban be available to "activate" in UTAN seems a reasonable compromise. As it stands Admins can't comment why they banned someone so they need to remember anyway. It just requires the discipline to go into UTAN and add the description for the ban.

Now for another brilliant idea from me . Often times I get reports of users breaking our rules and I would need to dig through the logs to find their global id. It would be real handy to have UTAN store a list of users/ids for the last day or so (more than that would probably be way too much information). I should be able to flag users for monitoring and maybe get an e-mail if they join (similar to receiving an e-mail when a ban is enforced). This way an admin can login and see if the behavior continues. Also, if a global id is used with multiple names (I've had users spoofing regulars) it would be nice to keep track of that as well.
  #4  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Both of these indicate that UTAN has it's own ban list (which is fine). But it's unclear if the standard banlist has any affect anymore. The second quote implies that if I kick/ban in game, the user won't be banned. Is this right?
Standard banning still works
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Now for another brilliant idea from me . Often times I get reports of users breaking our rules and I would need to dig through the logs to find their global id. It would be real handy to have UTAN store a list of users/ids for the last day or so (more than that would probably be way too much information). I should be able to flag users for monitoring and maybe get an e-mail if they join (similar to receiving an e-mail when a ban is enforced). This way an admin can login and see if the behavior continues. Also, if a global id is used with multiple names (I've had users spoofing regulars) it would be nice to keep track of that as well.
Nick Traq Not quite as complicated as your have said at the moment, but we keep nickname joins to your server(s) for 31 days.
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  #5  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 11:41 PM
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How about the possibility of storing local ban lists on a web site. I've noticed many communties maintain a makeshift ban list of their own. If they wish, they could submit a list of their worst offenders all in one go.
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  #6  
Unread 2nd June, 2004, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless
How about the possibility of storing local ban lists on a web site. I've noticed many communties maintain a makeshift ban list of their own. If they wish, they could submit a list of their worst offenders all in one go.
With your UTAN account you can input bans which only get sent out to your servers when your server asks for the ban list. Only visable to you, few issues if everyones ban list is visable to everyone.
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  #7  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
Nick Traq Not quite as complicated as your have said at the moment, but we keep nickname joins to your server(s) for 31 days.
So does it keep a list of the user's global id as well? And what features does your Nick Traq have?

Have you measured how much load this causes on the server? Or do you only submit the nick data on map load?
  #8  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
So does it keep a list of the user's global id as well? And what features does your Nick Traq have?

Have you measured how much load this causes on the server? Or do you only submit the nick data on map load?
Nick Traq keeps the players nickname, IP, GUID, the gametype and map the server was on at the time. We are still testing it at the moment. Nick Traq data is sent to the server when the player joins.
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When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it's a "Monster Kill", in Quake3 it's "Excellent", and in Counter-Strike it's "Kick Banned"
  #9  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limited
Nick Traq keeps the players nickname, IP, GUID, the gametype and map the server was on at the time. We are still testing it at the moment. Nick Traq data is sent to the server when the player joins.
Doing it on join seems like a bad idea. What happens if they change nicks after connecting? You could end up with a denial of service type scenario (whether on purpose or not).

Why not just save it up and when you request for the latest ban list send back the nick history. This will be a single spike of data and wouldn't affect any players on the server since this occurs during map load. It would also allow the data to be still collected if the server were unavailable. It would keep the history until a successful send.
  #10  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Doing it on join seems like a bad idea. What happens if they change nicks after connecting? You could end up with a denial of service type scenario (whether on purpose or not).
Don't think we could cause a DDoS even if we tried. About the nickname changes, im not sure how it handles it, i'll get back to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Why not just save it up and when you request for the latest ban list send back the nick history. This will be a single spike of data and wouldn't affect any players on the server since this occurs during map load.
This is a server side mutator, if the servers going to cause lag because it can't request roughly <1kb of data then I would'nt class it as a server.
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When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it's a "Monster Kill", in Quake3 it's "Excellent", and in Counter-Strike it's "Kick Banned"
  #11  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 04:42 AM
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Actually, I was thinking servers could cause a DDoS on the utan server. Especially if a message is sent every time a person changes names. The real issue comes to scalability of the utan server side, not the traffic impact on a single ut2k4 server.
  #12  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Actually, I was thinking servers could cause a DDoS on the utan server. Especially if a message is sent every time a person changes names. The real issue comes to scalability of the utan server side, not the traffic impact on a single ut2k4 server.
Although that is something to think about, the chances of that happening are very small. I'm not sure on even a rough estimate at the number of updates a second would require for the server to fall over at. I'll find out.
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When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it's a "Monster Kill", in Quake3 it's "Excellent", and in Counter-Strike it's "Kick Banned"
  #13  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 06:54 AM
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I'v just had a quick chat with some people who know thier shit about this. They have said with current projections for users/servers for UTAN we should'nt ever run into problems even with our current layout. However if the worst came to the worst, we can just disable this utan server side so that it wouldnt matter if servers were still telling it to update, it just wouldnt get processed when it hit our server.
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When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it's a "Monster Kill", in Quake3 it's "Excellent", and in Counter-Strike it's "Kick Banned"
  #14  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 07:34 AM
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I'm glad you looked into this. I would hate for you to regret not researching it sooner.
  #15  
Unread 3rd June, 2004, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidReflux
Actually, I was thinking servers could cause a DDoS on the utan server. Especially if a message is sent every time a person changes names. The real issue comes to scalability of the utan server side, not the traffic impact on a single ut2k4 server.
I am the primary coder for the Server Actor for UTAN.

Nick Traq data is sent only once per player, regardless of whether or not they change their name. However, if they disconnect and reconnect, it will send it again.

The ban list data length is currently around 10KB, this is downloaded only once per map on level change.

Nick Traq and Kick Reporting data sent to the UTAN server should always be < 1KB as it is just a simple URL request, and returns either success or failure to the game server.

And, finally, the UTAN system does not replace your current access control class, i.e. you can still ban people using the normal method on a server.

Last edited by Cruicky : 3rd June, 2004 at 08:40 AM.
  #16  
Unread 6th June, 2004, 10:52 PM
Brando67 Brando67 is offline
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Question

Personally i don't ban anyone till I look at my logs!!
One thing i do know is server Admins can have a great deal of differences in there checks which in turn can greatly increase or decrease there ability to truly nail cheaters!!
I use UtSecure with quite a few checks....
Sometimes I am skeptical of certain Insecure Client packages in my UTSecure log, But I trust the security is written proper!
I think Utan should have an Updated and current check list for both AntiTcc and UtSecure on the Web-Page so that server Admins can compare there checks with the list! I know I had to go through a long and hard hunt to finally get someone to help me with my check's list for UtSecure, and it was quite frusterating.I am not a computer geek, I build Million dollar houses for a living, yet i love this game, and Server Admins like myself could use all the help we can get with the proper checks for our security. I am sure there are alot of server admins who only use the default checks that come with the security!!!

I vote for a section of the web-page to be devoted to the proper checks for both security systems!!


Also:
The Idea of utan to auto add Global bans is great...
But i can see alot of bans not making to the Global ban list,
I have a freakin page of bans alone for my own server!
Who is really gonna spend the time reviewing all theses bans from differrent server's and adding them to the Global ban list!
Looks to me like it will be a Time consuming chore alone?

Sincerely
Brando`
Brandon Bernhardt
]SP['s Nutty iCTF/TDm server
aka ]SP[ExPulSion

Last edited by Brando67 : 7th June, 2004 at 12:41 PM.
  #17  
Unread 6th June, 2004, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando67
But i can see alot of bans not making to the Global ban list,
I have a freakin page of bans alone for my own server!
Who is really gonna spend the time reviewing all theses bans from differrent server's and adding them to the Global ban list!
Looks to me like it will be a Time consuming chore alone?
It'll be me who does that from time to time, I will probably only upgrade bans which have demo recorded evidence.
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When you kill 6 people in Unreal Tournament it's a "Monster Kill", in Quake3 it's "Excellent", and in Counter-Strike it's "Kick Banned"
  #18  
Unread 7th June, 2004, 02:47 AM
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My like to see requested feature : allowing multiple regions selected in the ban search (i.e) central/east/west US

thx
  #19  
Unread 7th June, 2004, 03:38 AM
Brando67 Brando67 is offline
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Cool

Ban search?

And the rest of my Post just ignored??
  #20  
Unread 7th June, 2004, 09:27 AM
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Thumbs up

Personally, i'm an AntiTCC man as it comes with all the default MD5 checks built in (AntiTCC 115a.) Also the additional security checks that it can implement on the running classes on the client is very good.

You are right about the cheaters exploiting the default checks as they are certainly not strong enough.

With AntiTCC, I use the League checks, and the League settings on all servers under my control as it would be very difficult for a cheater to bypass these.
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